Feb. 18, 2025

EP 40: The Golf Swing. Major Components of the Swing, and Why Changes Shouldn't Be Taken Lightly

EP 40: The Golf Swing. Major Components of the Swing, and Why Changes Shouldn't Be Taken Lightly
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Episode Summary

In this episode of The Golf Intervention, we break down the three elements of the golf swing—time, energy, and geometry. While many golfers are obsessed with geometry and, more recently, speed, we discuss why that’s only part of the equation. We also dive into the history of swing models, teaching theories over the years, and why changing your swing isn’t something to take lightly. If you’ve ever wondered whether you should tweak your mechanics or chase the latest swing trend, this episode is for you.

What We Cover in This Episode:

✔️ The three key elements of the golf swing: time, energy, and geometry
✔️ Why golfers are overly focused on geometry and speed—and the potential pitfalls
✔️ A look at the history of swing models and teaching philosophies
✔️ How to approach swing changes wisely to avoid setbacks
✔️ The story of Rob Failes being blocked on Twitter by Brandel Chamblee

✔️ The real factors that lead to long-term improvement


Resources & Links:

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WEBVTT

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Today's episode is brought to you by the premium content subscribers on the golf intervention substack.

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And we would of course like to thank all of our listeners for tuning in, you make it all worth while.

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If you would like to support the show or sign up for our free monthly newsletter, you can do that at thegolfintervention.substack.com or follow the link in the show notes.

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And welcome back to the golf intervention podcast.

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My name is Eric Leighton.

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I'm sitting here with my cohost, Rob fails.

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We teach golf for a living and today on the golf intervention podcast.

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We're going to talk about the golf swing.

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Rob fails.

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Are you fired up to talk about the golf swing

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Fired up.

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fired up?

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We don't talk about the golf swing that much on here because

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Nope.

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a show that's about the process of development, right?

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Development and learning and skills.

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And, uh, it's a very process driven show,

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yep.

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Mm

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kind of understand the framework of what we talk about when it comes to development.

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And I will tell you that know firsthand it's helping people because I've had, I had someone stop me, uh, at the country club the other day and they're like, are you Eric?

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And I was like, yeah, like, how's it going?

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And Robbie, you heard this, you heard this story the other day, but I was like, yeah.

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And he said, well, I'm so and so.

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And I just wanted to tell you that.

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I've been listening to your show and you and Rob Fales have really helped me out.

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He goes on and on and on about how he's playing better and he's, you know, handicaps down and he, you know, did well in the club championship and all these things.

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And I was like, man, that guy's playing better.

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He's never met us.

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Never met us.

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So all the stuff that we are talking about, and he told me practice habits, strategy on the

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hmm.

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course, understanding the uniqueness of who he is and how he plays and how to, you know, efficiently fit that into his life and time and swing and all these things has helped him.

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so we have focused on all those other things, equipment and practice and mindset and this stuff that really lays the foundation of the learning framework.

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As I understand it, as you understand it, as a lot of people who teach golf understand it.

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I think today what we want to get into is the actual swing kind of, right?

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In a way,

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In a way we, uh,

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this isn't the first time we've, we've, we've taken a swing at this, by the way,

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there you go.

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I like the pun taking a swing at the swing episode.

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that was, that was actually not intended at all.

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did it though.

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You pulled it off.

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So.

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We recorded the other, the other day, and we tried to do this.

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We tried to pick up on skill and sort of the mechanical, if you want to call it that effects of skill and try to

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I'd biases you maybe

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And it just didn't work.

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It didn't work.

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And like, halfway through Robbie's like, this is not working.

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And we had a little

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because it's too complicated.

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Like it's,

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Yeah, it didn't

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this is the whole point, right?

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that.

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It doesn't, it doesn't actually work like that.

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So, what we're not going to do on this show is criticize how anyone teaches the golf swing, because

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Right.

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thing that I've learned a long time ago is that people that put themselves out there doing something try to help people,

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Yeah.

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may have different styles.

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Right.

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Yep.

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Okay.

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Yeah,

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if you're learning.

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Or you're growing, then that person's doing their job, right?

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that's right.

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Yeah,

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golf swing goes, and I think the main listener here is likely going to be a golfer would be my guess.

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well, we're going to say we're going to, we're going to leave a lot of things unsaid.

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So if you want to think about what we believe, you won't hear certain things.

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And then you'll probably take a guess as to how we,

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you can read read between the lines kind of thing.

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Right.

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read between the lines, but we don't criticize people because Hey, people can criticize us.

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Right?

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Everybody sees things differently.

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And if you get results with your students, that's what matters.

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Like, that's the deal.

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And so I think that when we talk about the golf swing, listener is who knows level 1, level 2, level 3 player, maybe a young coaches tuning in.

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Um, and what we want to.

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Really make a point about on this episode that we believe if you're tuning into the golf intervention, because you're you want to listen to what we have to say about it.

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Right?

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This is this is what we believe.

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Right?

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And here you're my captive audience.

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What we believe is that the golf swing isn't one right answer.

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Right.

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There isn't one model of the swing.

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Okay.

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Modeling is, is a little tricky in my opinion.

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I think that for many years when we taught golf or tried to play golf, we had to sort of see it through the lens of a model because we didn't have a lot of insight on sort of the ball and club interaction or,

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That's all we had, right?

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Yeah,

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we didn't have anything else.

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Right?

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So we, we would sort of model it.

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Um, and, and, and golf has evolved.

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I think people that's played golf for a long time or studied would say, yeah, things have evolved and things have gotten better.

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And those teachers that maybe had taught a model, a lot of them maybe have moved away from that and evolved in their own instruction.

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So I think they're just evolving and data is changing everything.

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So, as we talk about.

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Yeah.

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Golf.

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The one thing I, I kind of learned way long time ago, teaching golf was that there wasn't one right answer.

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And so the overall philosophy of people ask me, tell me about your swing philosophy, Eric, because people say swing

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that's a great one, right?

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all they ever care about is the swing.

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So you and you and I have laid out a sort of a framework of golf development.

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Which is very different than philosophy, right?

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So what's your swing philosophy, Eric?

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Well, my swing philosophy is this.

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Um, everybody's different, right?

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Everybody's different.

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people have different past experiences.

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They have different body shapes.

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They have different capabilities or limitations out of their body.

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They learn different ways.

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They understand different ways.

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They play different sports.

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so they all bring something to golf.

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And then likely Their best way of playing golf is understanding how they can apply that to skill development to make them play better, right?

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Thank you.

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Um, that doesn't mean they'll never change their swing.

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This isn't a swing your swing thing.

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This is like, you know, there are unique characteristics to each person.

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Yeah.

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Um, what I don't believe is the opposite of that, which is, Hey, here's a swing and you should do it

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Right.

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are.

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And I think that's, that's kind of when we can get in a little bit of trouble in golf, because

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It's interesting.

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Right.

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It's like what people, a lot of people want, right.

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When they, when they take golf lessons, they want their pro oftentimes just tell them, Hey, just do this.

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Just do this.

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That's it.

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Just do this.

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And you can't just do that.

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That is not what we just do.

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So I would say that, um, there, it's easy to look and watch the PGA tour.

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You know, Rory won right yesterday.

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Rory's got the swing that you would watch and go, wow, that looks, it looks like an orthodox golf swing.

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Like if you, you know, whatever that means, would you watch it?

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You go like, that looks like a great player with a great swing.

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great.

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Um, I would say that if you, if you were trying to learn golf from major social media trends, it doesn't look like Rory's swing.

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And it certainly doesn't look like Scottie Scheffler swing.

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It's almost

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That's right.

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Scheffler is a gift from the golf gods to make fun of all the, all the like

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Yes.

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golf

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Correct.

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like he's doing the complete opposite,

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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motion.

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Like, okay, that's not exactly what, what we're influencing on tick tock or something

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Sure.

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easy to see there isn't a right answer for should your, should your left wrist or, you know, your lead risk be cupped or boat or flat at the top, you know, should you have your arms over your right shoulder?

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Should your left arm be straight?

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Should you.

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Who knows, should you separate your femurs it when you, you know, transition, it is, whatever these things are, okay, the answer is, it depends, isn't that, isn't that true?

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I mean, so I think that what we try to do as coaches is just learn the player, learn their history, learn their body shape, right?

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Like, if you go back to our last episode with Dr Mike K and listen to what he says about the shape of a person's body and how that may influence how they move, all kinds of things.

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And so, um, we talk about the swing, it's a little hard for like Robbie and I to go like, yeah, here's the swing.

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You should do this because because really, hopefully, if you come and watch us teach, you'd say, wow, well, you taught eight lessons today, Eric, but.

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all did kind of different things probably.

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And that's, that's fair to say when they come to see you, Robert, a lot of good teachers, right?

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We don't want a quarter in the market on this.

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So, I think that some of those important factors, like, I'm just going to name some bullet points and we'll try to go through some of this today.

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Um, a generally people are just different.

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They see things differently.

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They learn differently.

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They may.

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I may be able to move, you know, differently based on their body shape, or, maybe some past injury history, or stiff in certain areas, or we can certain areas or hyper mobile, like, all these things come into play.

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Right?

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Um, then you've got sort of how they understand.

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Where the club is in space, I think this is kind of a modern understanding of teaching, which does come into play, um, some of them we call connect a club kinetics, like this relationship between how we're moving and pulling the club and how it's kind of moving through space.

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Um, and I think Sasha taught us a lot about that, right?

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If you go back to our episode and our interview with Sasha, and I said that, I think Sasha put out 1 of the most important kind of videos.

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the history of golf instruction with, with Chris combo, because it introduced a lot of us to this understanding.

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Um, then you've got sort of this other stuff that we're seeing in the modern swing, which has a lot to do with how we're developing energy in the swing, right?

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No, we use the term energy speeds.

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You put speed in there.

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Um, but really this development of energy again, listen to Dr.

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Mike K in that.

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I've listened to that episode at least 3 or 4 times, um, because just like the way he explains it.

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And he, he's got that brain.

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That's kind of like,

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Oh, yeah,

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he's

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it's, it's, it's going too fast.

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it's going fast.

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And I wish we had the video for it because he

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Oh, yeah.

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I mean, it's like, he's moving all over the, I don't know if he was in a chair that had wheels on it, but it was like, he was, it felt like he was moving all around his room when he was talking

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Yeah.

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And then at one point he did bring out the pelvis and that was actually showing us.

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And that's our thing about a podcast is that you don't get the visual.

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So I feel like watching it back over.

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Was a lot clearer and easier to understand than maybe listening, but I think still, I totally agree with you, like, listening back to it.

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It's, uh, it's always so much fun listening to him talk about movement.

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and I thought you did a great job, which I texted you and said, a lot of what he was described super cool.

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But you had obviously been,

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some experience with him.

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Right?

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about it and had a relationship.

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So you had these, these, like, little illustrations.

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You're like, well, it's kind of like this and I thought those were great, you know, and those parts of the, of the interview were awesome.

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And so there were so many things to take out of there.

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Yeah, it was a, it was a broad episode that covered a lot of stuff,

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Yeah.

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Yes,

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really interesting pieces to it.

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And in the modern instructional game right now, people are fascinated with that with energy.

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Like, it's just it's the thing.

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ground force reaction.

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It's, um, you know, um, speed training.

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I would say so.

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And right.

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If we go back to, we've talked about this before the, the 3 main.

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Um, if you're going to come up with like a deterministic model of what is a golf swing, it really boils down to energy, time and geometry, right?

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Being the main three, I would say that energy is, is up and coming really recently, honestly, but it's nowhere close to geometry in terms of what people are obsessed with.

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Like if you look at Instagram, if you look at YouTube, if you look at all this stuff, everybody is still obsessed with.

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Geometry like the positions the club is moving through and that kind of stuff.

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Um, me

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I didn't actually say this.

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I meant to, is it for a lot of time?

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Our digestion of the swing form was 2 dimensional, right?

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So it's just like pictures or videos.

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And so we're trying to glean information from positions of the swing.

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And then that sort of phases into.

00:14:02.407 --> 00:14:07.447
The Instagram, YouTube kind of, I don't know anything about TikTok because I don't have it, but

00:14:07.945 --> 00:14:08.195
either.

00:14:08.346 --> 00:14:11.937
visual, like everything on everything on Instagram is the visual, like the picture.

00:14:12.006 --> 00:14:12.386
Right.

00:14:12.835 --> 00:14:13.195
Yeah.

00:14:13.267 --> 00:14:18.206
kind of funny to me, like, you watch these, these swings that kind of pop up and they're all in slow motion.

00:14:18.216 --> 00:14:18.866
And like, if

00:14:18.955 --> 00:14:19.664
Yes.

00:14:19.706 --> 00:14:21.826
in slow motion, it probably looks kind of cool.

00:14:22.404 --> 00:14:23.585
Can't stand slomo.

00:14:25.856 --> 00:14:33.187
so you have to be careful about what you interpret from 2 D, uh, pictures or video.

00:14:34.096 --> 00:14:41.886
I remember one time when I got Rob Fales blocked by Brandon Chamblee on Twitter because he would

00:14:41.945 --> 00:14:42.875
I remember that

00:14:43.246 --> 00:14:44.647
of like complete random

00:14:44.825 --> 00:14:46.695
the camera angles were so bad.

00:14:47.042 --> 00:14:48.881
Um, he was trying to make all these points.

00:14:49.331 --> 00:14:57.662
Um, and I'm not poo poo and brandled by any means, but he was trying to make these points about the golf swing up from old black and white pictures from weird camera angles.

00:14:58.101 --> 00:15:00.792
And I just tagged Robbie and I was like, camera angles, question mark.

00:15:00.792 --> 00:15:02.172
And boom, Robbie gets blocked.

00:15:02.182 --> 00:15:03.192
I don't know why Robbie

00:15:03.195 --> 00:15:03.485
Yeah.

00:15:03.652 --> 00:15:04.481
I, he didn't block me.

00:15:04.605 --> 00:15:06.504
I don't think I actually ever said anything.

00:15:06.802 --> 00:15:10.371
I don't think you did either, or you just like maybe made an emoji face,

00:15:10.375 --> 00:15:10.764
Yeah.

00:15:10.784 --> 00:15:11.764
I liked it or something.

00:15:11.855 --> 00:15:12.345
I don't know.

00:15:12.557 --> 00:15:14.086
or something, but,

00:15:14.245 --> 00:15:14.585
Funny.

00:15:15.547 --> 00:15:26.777
but the fact of the matter is, you know, the golf, the golf swing and the energy and all that it's hard to determine from, you know, what we had in the past, like pictures.

00:15:26.777 --> 00:15:31.557
And so now what we have is new, new interpretations.

00:15:31.557 --> 00:15:35.437
Well, I think are getting interpreted incorrectly as well at times.

00:15:35.437 --> 00:15:37.567
Like, not afraid to say that.

00:15:38.106 --> 00:15:42.537
Um, and I would think that other people aren't afraid to say that, like, know, you can't.

00:15:42.886 --> 00:15:49.177
You can't take 100 tour players put a couple sensors on them and then say, okay, here's whatever.

00:15:49.216 --> 00:15:51.927
Let's average all that data together and tell people this is what they

00:15:52.065 --> 00:15:52.514
Yeah.

00:15:52.514 --> 00:15:53.605
It's so dangerous.

00:15:53.634 --> 00:15:53.904
Right.

00:15:54.027 --> 00:15:57.917
Yeah, I think that's just because that's the, I mean, it was an interpretation of data.

00:15:57.996 --> 00:15:58.287
Right?

00:15:58.297 --> 00:16:06.287
So fact is, that's the opposite of what we started with the beginning when we said people bring their own unique things to the table and then we got to teach them how to.

00:16:06.522 --> 00:16:07.812
Have golf skills, right?

00:16:08.731 --> 00:16:15.881
But that, that modeling, that heart, like that, big time, like, here's the one model we're going to, know, that's tough.

00:16:16.032 --> 00:16:20.981
That's, I think that again, it probably helps some people and some other people are going to really struggle with that.

00:16:21.684 --> 00:16:22.004
Right.

00:16:22.091 --> 00:16:23.822
everybody does have their own stuff.

00:16:23.851 --> 00:16:29.351
And the way, not, not a lot of people move like tour players.

00:16:30.072 --> 00:16:31.261
Like, so if you're taking tour

00:16:31.284 --> 00:16:31.554
Yeah,

00:16:31.631 --> 00:16:35.522
data and trying to teach a beginner 72 year old.

00:16:36.451 --> 00:16:40.961
Whoever man or woman to put like that data isn't super helpful.

00:16:41.331 --> 00:16:41.631
I don't

00:16:41.855 --> 00:16:42.304
correct.

00:16:42.642 --> 00:16:42.831
right.

00:16:42.831 --> 00:16:44.461
It's not the thing to be focusing on.

00:16:44.912 --> 00:16:48.792
And when they go to practice on their own, what are they practicing?

00:16:49.042 --> 00:16:50.782
Like, are they working on?

00:16:50.782 --> 00:16:55.282
And they're not getting the data from whatever the 3D were giving them in the

00:16:55.414 --> 00:16:55.945
Right.

00:16:56.371 --> 00:16:56.642
right?

00:16:56.642 --> 00:16:59.162
So they got to be able to carry that out with them and they can't.

00:16:59.812 --> 00:17:00.442
So,

00:17:00.684 --> 00:17:09.365
and that's where, as an instructor, our job can be so dangerous if we have the belief that the swing creates the shot, right?

00:17:09.365 --> 00:17:11.144
Because we're going to give this guarantee.

00:17:11.875 --> 00:17:24.154
We're not going, you and I aren't going to do, but a lot of folks who are maybe early in their teaching career or, or just miss unders who have misguided, um, are going to look at this data.

00:17:24.595 --> 00:17:26.484
Because I know I did in the past for sure.

00:17:26.484 --> 00:17:34.454
So, so no hard feelings, but, you know, you look at the data and you say, okay, well, on average, which is incredibly dangerous.

00:17:34.464 --> 00:17:41.224
First of all, because you could have an average of data where no 1 is exhibiting that exact data point.

00:17:41.275 --> 00:17:41.575
Right?

00:17:42.051 --> 00:17:42.451
right.

00:17:42.674 --> 00:17:44.944
and you say, okay, well, because they're doing this.

00:17:45.785 --> 00:17:47.444
Just do this, right?

00:17:47.444 --> 00:17:52.704
But that data doesn't tell you how it's collect, how it's created, right?

00:17:52.714 --> 00:17:55.634
It just tells you the result, what, what ended up happening.

00:17:56.204 --> 00:17:59.654
So then you tell the story like, okay, well, if tour pros do this.

00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:03.180
It must improve the quality of your shots, whatever that means.

00:18:03.180 --> 00:18:05.150
Again, it's more of a judgment of like good or bad.

00:18:05.150 --> 00:18:05.480
Right?

00:18:06.029 --> 00:18:09.750
And so a golfer is going to go out and they're going to try to do X movement.

00:18:10.339 --> 00:18:14.470
And then their feedback is their judgment of, Oh, that was a good shot.

00:18:14.490 --> 00:18:15.369
That was a bad shot.

00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:16.119
Right?

00:18:16.779 --> 00:18:24.859
And so this is how we get into these, these really, really bad rabbit holes and kind of spiral a good go down this downward spiral.

00:18:25.442 --> 00:18:25.811
Yeah.

00:18:26.099 --> 00:18:29.230
Is oftentimes that's kind of the sequence that that happens.

00:18:29.329 --> 00:18:29.869
Unfortunately.

00:18:30.192 --> 00:18:34.882
I think the most frustrated I ever see golfers is when they are trying to.

00:18:35.656 --> 00:18:38.277
Quote unquote hit positions in their golf swing in

00:18:38.349 --> 00:18:38.900
Yes.

00:18:39.436 --> 00:18:40.876
And they're really struggling with that.

00:18:41.166 --> 00:18:50.326
Um, a, it's really hard to, for most golfers to just feel they're doing while they're doing it.

00:18:50.500 --> 00:18:52.200
Yes, absolutely.

00:18:52.257 --> 00:18:53.027
just be honest.

00:18:53.027 --> 00:18:53.346
Right.

00:18:53.846 --> 00:19:03.277
And so like, just to say, Oh, you know, I was told I needed to do this at the top of my swing or this halfway back or in my transition.

00:19:03.430 --> 00:19:03.809
Right?

00:19:03.856 --> 00:19:05.027
all work on parts of the swing.

00:19:05.027 --> 00:19:05.896
I'm not saying we don't.

00:19:06.957 --> 00:19:15.432
When you're When you're just trying to work on that and the only feedback is, yeah, at the top of my back swing, I'm supposed to do this thing,

00:19:16.039 --> 00:19:16.990
And that means good shot.

00:19:17.352 --> 00:19:18.501
Yeah, it's really hard.

00:19:18.501 --> 00:19:18.672
Right?

00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:19.059
Right?

00:19:19.102 --> 00:19:21.942
filming every swing and and giving yourself feedback.

00:19:21.942 --> 00:19:28.701
That's why we, we try to in the framework, build you a feedback loop that has to do with impact skills.

00:19:28.781 --> 00:19:29.102
Right?

00:19:29.132 --> 00:19:29.751
We teach you.

00:19:30.352 --> 00:19:37.852
Where the ball sitting on the face, trying to make some judgment about the low point to make some judgment about the face path relationship as the balls flying through the air.

00:19:37.852 --> 00:19:38.152
Right?

00:19:38.501 --> 00:19:41.392
So, those are the things that you can give yourself feedback on as you're

00:19:41.430 --> 00:19:41.849
Totally.

00:19:41.849 --> 00:19:53.710
Yes.

00:19:54.612 --> 00:19:55.961
Um, that's gonna be tricky.

00:19:56.071 --> 00:19:58.561
I'm not saying we don't teach stuff like that, but it's gonna be trickier.

00:19:58.692 --> 00:19:58.961
Right?

00:19:58.961 --> 00:20:02.372
So just have to be careful what it is that you're trying to take on.

00:20:02.987 --> 00:20:09.686
So, A, you should never take any of that stuff on without, without a really good reason to do it,

00:20:09.930 --> 00:20:10.579
Yes.

00:20:10.836 --> 00:20:22.596
And without, like, if you go take a lesson from a coach and they say, hey, here's exactly what you need to do because your skills and here's your, here's your goals and you're not going to get there.

00:20:22.596 --> 00:20:26.297
And if you believe them and you understand it, then you should go work on that.

00:20:26.890 --> 00:20:27.160
Yep.

00:20:27.297 --> 00:20:31.146
you're like, hey, um, I want to get better at golf.

00:20:31.416 --> 00:20:32.487
And I saw this.

00:20:33.557 --> 00:20:36.676
that said, if I do this thing, I had it for it's gonna be tough.

00:20:36.676 --> 00:20:37.126
Or I read this

00:20:37.339 --> 00:20:37.359
Yeah.

00:20:37.457 --> 00:20:38.096
or article.

00:20:38.196 --> 00:20:43.287
It's gonna be really tough because the context matters the context of the whole to your point.

00:20:43.646 --> 00:20:45.497
The context of that whole thing matters.

00:20:45.537 --> 00:20:48.207
So, as we go back into this a little bit.

00:20:48.622 --> 00:20:51.481
Rob kind of backtracking.

00:20:52.211 --> 00:20:59.362
when it comes to the swing itself, and I know Mike K talked about this, but let's just talk about the human being for a minute, right?

00:20:59.644 --> 00:20:59.964
Yeah.

00:21:00.221 --> 00:21:04.932
being comes in and they're trying to figure out what the golf swing is for them.

00:21:05.132 --> 00:21:06.582
What are some considerations?

00:21:06.582 --> 00:21:20.326
Obviously, you can summarize a little bit from Mike K's interview, but other things that you like to look at as far as just The person, you know, they come, they're standing in front of you you're thinking about what golf swing should look like for them.

00:21:20.444 --> 00:21:20.875
Yeah.

00:21:20.936 --> 00:21:22.747
you making some judgments upon that

00:21:22.765 --> 00:21:23.144
Oh.

00:21:23.186 --> 00:21:23.797
see him swing?

00:21:24.230 --> 00:21:25.009
Yeah, for sure.

00:21:25.009 --> 00:21:26.230
I mean, like, like Dr.

00:21:26.230 --> 00:21:35.329
K has talked about in the last episode, whether or not you, your skeleton, your frame is biased toward a wide or a narrow is absolutely going to give you constraints.

00:21:35.559 --> 00:21:35.779
Right?

00:21:35.779 --> 00:21:47.319
I think understanding that it is a constraint doesn't mean it's determining that this is what you should or are going to do, but just appreciating the fact that this is something that is going to influence what you do.

00:21:47.549 --> 00:21:47.819
Right?

00:21:47.819 --> 00:21:50.460
So why rib cage versus narrow rib cage?

00:21:50.904 --> 00:21:56.325
Uh, if you just look at the human, right, you can look at someone with maybe a narrower jaw versus a wider jaw, right?

00:21:56.325 --> 00:22:01.894
So those two humans, while they're both humans, you can think of them as different animals, right?

00:22:02.295 --> 00:22:05.505
You've got a, uh, you got a giraffe, right?

00:22:05.664 --> 00:22:11.295
Real long, you know, very narrow, and then you've got An elephant, right?

00:22:11.305 --> 00:22:16.285
Not, it has nothing to do with your, your body mass or your weight or anything like that.

00:22:16.305 --> 00:22:21.295
Like you have an elite, elite, elite athletes who are wides, uh, or narrows, right?

00:22:21.295 --> 00:22:22.255
So it has nothing to do with that.

00:22:22.265 --> 00:22:25.265
Just your DNA, your physical structure would be number one.

00:22:26.075 --> 00:22:29.734
And then the other thing that I look at a lot is just a golfer's gait.

00:22:29.775 --> 00:22:35.575
Like when they walk, are they actually moving through early, middle, late propulsion in their feet?

00:22:36.329 --> 00:22:49.299
Is there some sort of like a cross crawl pattern happening between the step in the rib cage glide that in the rib cage, a change of shape that we've talked about in the last episode and then are their arms actually swinging freely, right?

00:22:49.299 --> 00:22:50.880
So what does that kind of sound like?

00:22:51.589 --> 00:22:52.769
Which a golf swing, right?

00:22:52.900 --> 00:22:57.509
There's a step, your rib cage changes shape, your arm swing, right?

00:22:57.509 --> 00:22:59.039
So that all happens in a golf swing.

00:22:59.039 --> 00:23:06.759
So if I see somebody who's maybe their left side is really pulled down, they're kind of, they, they, they can strive.

00:23:07.134 --> 00:23:09.684
Well, with one foot or the other, right?

00:23:09.684 --> 00:23:12.345
Or maybe one arms just not swinging, right?

00:23:12.345 --> 00:23:18.224
Then that's kind of giving me clues like, oh, we might have some stuff might have some again, some constraints.

00:23:18.884 --> 00:23:21.714
I mean, it doesn't mean that because I've seen some people who

00:23:22.484 --> 00:23:25.548
Yeah.

00:23:25.664 --> 00:23:27.015
walk, I watch them stand.

00:23:27.535 --> 00:23:27.944
I watched it.

00:23:28.045 --> 00:23:28.494
I was like, Oh,

00:23:28.611 --> 00:23:31.673
Silence.

00:23:31.684 --> 00:23:37.924
a golf club in their hand and they have the task in front of them, they move like amazing in front of me.

00:23:38.075 --> 00:23:40.644
And I'm like, man, that was surprising.

00:23:40.654 --> 00:23:42.605
So again, it's not deterministic.

00:23:42.605 --> 00:23:44.015
It's just, again, it's a constraint.

00:23:44.634 --> 00:23:47.434
Um, so that would be number two.

00:23:47.434 --> 00:23:50.515
And then obviously we've talked about this a lot again.

00:23:50.555 --> 00:23:53.734
Other constraints are going to be just your beliefs, right?

00:23:54.075 --> 00:23:54.934
Your conventions.

00:23:55.404 --> 00:24:06.845
What you believe you should quote unquote do, um, oftentimes over long enough period of time, you end up doing pretty much what you think you should do or trying to do.

00:24:07.535 --> 00:24:10.535
Um, problem is, it's not always helpful.

00:24:10.934 --> 00:24:11.234
Right?

00:24:11.234 --> 00:24:15.944
So those are kind of the, some of the main things that I look at on a day to day basis for sure.

00:24:16.221 --> 00:24:23.432
I look at shoulders a lot, you know, how their posture is at the top of their top of their back and their shoulders, you know,

00:24:23.535 --> 00:24:24.424
Oh, yeah, for sure.

00:24:25.011 --> 00:24:26.612
Are they kind of that rounded look?

00:24:26.613 --> 00:24:28.207
Um,

00:24:28.484 --> 00:24:29.744
That all goes into like the gate.

00:24:29.744 --> 00:24:32.904
So like when I'm watching their gate, I'm watching their whole like, yeah, absolutely.

00:24:33.115 --> 00:24:33.904
I agree.

00:24:34.244 --> 00:24:35.095
100 percent with that.

00:24:35.192 --> 00:24:35.872
a, that's a big one.

00:24:35.902 --> 00:24:37.682
And I don't see tons of walking, right?

00:24:37.682 --> 00:24:39.832
Because they're just kind of popping into the bay with me

00:24:39.964 --> 00:24:40.424
Yeah.

00:24:40.541 --> 00:24:43.961
So that's 1, but I would say that, Yeah.

00:24:44.932 --> 00:24:47.362
Trying to understand what people's limitations are.

00:24:47.362 --> 00:24:54.672
So if you take a lesson and I, and I say, Hey, tell me if you got any, you know, do you have any knees, shoulders, ankles, you

00:24:54.674 --> 00:24:55.494
People don't remember.

00:24:56.132 --> 00:24:58.211
well, they just, they just lie most of the time.

00:24:58.994 --> 00:25:00.134
Or that, right?

00:25:00.241 --> 00:25:01.241
I don't think they're lying.

00:25:01.281 --> 00:25:01.821
I take it back.

00:25:02.001 --> 00:25:04.092
What they're, what they're doing is they're downplaying.

00:25:04.102 --> 00:25:05.412
Cause this is what we do in our mind.

00:25:05.422 --> 00:25:09.352
Like we'll say, ah, you know, like that knees, Bob, it's not a big deal.

00:25:09.362 --> 00:25:13.612
So we just kind of, we compartmentalize it yeah, maybe day to day life.

00:25:13.612 --> 00:25:15.842
Like it's not a big deal, but in golf, it could be.

00:25:16.325 --> 00:25:19.944
I think half the time they do it because they're like, oh, well, if I tell them.

00:25:20.630 --> 00:25:27.059
This is going to affect the way they look at me or like they view my swing or something like they, they want the most like unbiased

00:25:27.442 --> 00:25:27.821
Yeah.

00:25:28.339 --> 00:25:30.410
possible, but it only just helps us.

00:25:30.410 --> 00:25:31.109
Like, that's the thing.

00:25:31.109 --> 00:25:31.710
Like it's not.

00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:39.619
And then to my point earlier, like I've, I've had situations where like three or four lessons in we're doing some stuff, right.

00:25:39.630 --> 00:25:42.930
And then they start feeling like their left ankle starting to burn or whatever.

00:25:42.930 --> 00:25:45.240
And then like, Oh, like what's going on with your left foot.

00:25:45.289 --> 00:25:46.450
And then they think about it.

00:25:46.470 --> 00:25:48.460
They're like, Oh wait, I actually did.

00:25:48.815 --> 00:25:51.944
I have like a grade three sprain a couple of months ago.

00:25:52.005 --> 00:25:54.884
I was like, Oh, that would have been good to know.

00:25:55.605 --> 00:25:55.815
Right.

00:25:56.277 --> 00:25:56.646
right.

00:25:56.997 --> 00:25:58.807
Um, Oh, my ankles fused.

00:25:58.936 --> 00:25:59.326
Oh,

00:25:59.704 --> 00:26:00.454
Oh

00:26:00.457 --> 00:26:03.416
a couple of weeks ago where the lady, I said, tell me about your shoulder.

00:26:03.416 --> 00:26:04.586
Cause I could just kind of see it.

00:26:04.616 --> 00:26:05.757
Something was going on there

00:26:05.775 --> 00:26:06.164
yeah.

00:26:06.356 --> 00:26:08.487
and she goes, I don't have any problems.

00:26:08.487 --> 00:26:11.876
And she takes two swings and she goes, well, I do have a torn rotator cuff.

00:26:13.586 --> 00:26:14.317
I was like, well,

00:26:15.075 --> 00:26:15.634
Mm hmm.

00:26:16.376 --> 00:26:19.067
you know, right shoulder torn rotator cuff, kind of

00:26:19.085 --> 00:26:19.345
Mm.

00:26:19.345 --> 00:26:20.875
100%.

00:26:21.156 --> 00:26:31.961
that, and, and what I would say is, If your belief system was you were supposed to swing like Rory McIlroy have a torn rotator cuff in your right shoulder, that's going to be difficult.

00:26:32.461 --> 00:26:37.652
But if you don't have that belief and you say, Hey, I've got this limitation, maybe not a torn rotator.

00:26:37.701 --> 00:26:39.892
Maybe I'm just a little bit limited in my rotation.

00:26:40.321 --> 00:26:43.122
Um, I can still play really good golf.

00:26:43.192 --> 00:26:45.872
I can play my best golf with what I'm bringing to the table.

00:26:46.221 --> 00:26:48.432
And that's what we're trying to tell you, right?

00:26:48.842 --> 00:26:56.332
The other thing that I think is interesting is I don't think that there's a, there is some notion that.

00:26:56.652 --> 00:26:59.981
Based on who you are, there's a right answer to exactly how you

00:27:00.035 --> 00:27:00.474
Right.

00:27:00.721 --> 00:27:01.021
anatomically.

00:27:01.981 --> 00:27:02.882
And I do, I

00:27:02.884 --> 00:27:03.255
Yeah.

00:27:03.332 --> 00:27:05.112
some of those inferences are fine.

00:27:05.321 --> 00:27:06.981
I think they're good and they're insightful.

00:27:07.602 --> 00:27:16.041
But again, if you, if you're influencing the belief system too much of the person, then it kind of contradicts with something that they think they should do.

00:27:16.265 --> 00:27:16.714
Right.

00:27:16.781 --> 00:27:17.192
a problem.

00:27:17.201 --> 00:27:17.461
So I had a

00:27:17.664 --> 00:27:18.005
Yes.

00:27:18.122 --> 00:27:19.632
a, who's a very good teacher.

00:27:20.582 --> 00:27:23.342
he, um, He was learning a system.

00:27:24.234 --> 00:27:24.615
Mm hmm.

00:27:25.092 --> 00:27:31.791
you know, he went, he went, certified in this system of like biomechanical measure me and tell me all these things, right.

00:27:32.211 --> 00:27:33.541
Tell me how I'm supposed to swing.

00:27:33.551 --> 00:27:35.961
Now he's a fabulous player played at the university of Florida.

00:27:36.122 --> 00:27:36.291
Okay.

00:27:36.291 --> 00:27:37.461
Like good golfer.

00:27:38.392 --> 00:27:42.251
Um, I said, wow, I was interested, like, how did it go?

00:27:42.261 --> 00:27:42.951
What did you learn?

00:27:43.221 --> 00:27:44.231
Oh, it was really interesting.

00:27:44.241 --> 00:27:53.771
But, you know, like when they told me how I'm supposed to swing, um, it hurt and, and, and I don't, and, and obviously it's like, you know, it's a swing change.

00:27:53.771 --> 00:27:56.251
So I got to kind of, I got to kind of work through it.

00:27:56.261 --> 00:27:58.471
So, you know, Dot, dot, dot.

00:27:58.612 --> 00:28:04.602
I'm saying is he, his instinct was this isn't actually, it's not helping me and it hurts a little bit.

00:28:04.711 --> 00:28:04.852
It

00:28:04.970 --> 00:28:05.420
Yeah.

00:28:05.801 --> 00:28:06.332
actually.

00:28:06.811 --> 00:28:09.511
So there can be some inferences there.

00:28:09.521 --> 00:28:15.682
I'm not saying that there aren't, but again, I think it's very, gotta be careful when you say you should, or you have

00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:16.299
Yes.

00:28:16.329 --> 00:28:18.240
Should is a very dangerous word.

00:28:18.521 --> 00:28:21.152
Yeah, we like could or options.

00:28:21.451 --> 00:28:21.701
Like you

00:28:21.789 --> 00:28:22.150
Yes.

00:28:22.892 --> 00:28:25.451
Eric, should I take the club here in my takeaway or here?

00:28:26.241 --> 00:28:29.372
Well, I mean, let's talk about how

00:28:29.490 --> 00:28:29.779
Right.

00:28:30.112 --> 00:28:30.781
the ball flight.

00:28:31.642 --> 00:28:31.842
all.

00:28:31.852 --> 00:28:34.082
That's always what I'm going back to like.

00:28:34.467 --> 00:28:37.557
Well, if you take it back here, do you think that will open or close the clip face?

00:28:38.047 --> 00:28:40.727
Do you think that will make the path move more in to out or out to in?

00:28:40.797 --> 00:28:43.416
Like, there is some cause and effect there.

00:28:44.176 --> 00:28:45.287
do you think it's going to help?

00:28:45.636 --> 00:28:47.267
And then, or change, right?

00:28:47.616 --> 00:28:48.586
Or influence.

00:28:48.987 --> 00:28:52.086
And then, hit some shots and see, right?

00:28:52.156 --> 00:28:52.446
See,

00:28:52.650 --> 00:28:52.940
Yeah.

00:28:53.186 --> 00:28:54.267
see how it feels.

00:28:54.696 --> 00:28:56.116
Does that feel right to you?

00:28:56.116 --> 00:28:57.557
Does that not feel right to you?

00:28:58.027 --> 00:29:10.116
Um, so, when we're talking about the body itself, The body shape and then those, um, limitations, you could call them the limitations that people have.

00:29:10.747 --> 00:29:16.737
Um, it's going to really lend to options are in a lot of ways, but it's not going to say, here's your box.

00:29:16.737 --> 00:29:17.626
You're going to go fit in it.

00:29:18.230 --> 00:29:18.730
Correct.

00:29:18.826 --> 00:29:20.257
at least I don't believe it's that way.

00:29:20.930 --> 00:29:21.339
Nope.

00:29:21.356 --> 00:29:27.257
I'm always doing when I teach the golf swing, just like any other part is just what I said, we ask questions.

00:29:27.436 --> 00:29:30.426
Like, I ask them questions, ask me questions.

00:29:30.696 --> 00:29:30.977
We.

00:29:31.386 --> 00:29:33.547
We explore things a little bit, right?

00:29:33.856 --> 00:29:36.217
And then we come back and try to find, like, does that feel right?

00:29:36.217 --> 00:29:36.997
Could you do that?

00:29:37.017 --> 00:29:43.297
Does not because I'm always trying to judge far off of what feels like kind of like normal to them.

00:29:43.307 --> 00:29:43.906
It is

00:29:44.579 --> 00:29:44.599
For

00:29:44.686 --> 00:29:46.576
I don't want to try to move them too far off that.

00:29:47.076 --> 00:29:47.257
Right?

00:29:47.257 --> 00:29:54.176
Because I've learned that when you move people too far away from that all at once, it's very difficult to make the change.

00:29:54.269 --> 00:29:55.109
skills to line up.

00:29:55.109 --> 00:29:55.430
Right.

00:29:55.509 --> 00:29:56.329
And that's where

00:29:56.528 --> 00:29:57.214
Yeah.

00:29:57.250 --> 00:30:01.394
we, when we do skill training, whether we Do it intentionally or not.

00:30:02.144 --> 00:30:03.884
You can call playing golf skill training.

00:30:04.585 --> 00:30:10.615
Um, when you use a General movement pattern and you skill train long enough.

00:30:10.994 --> 00:30:15.269
It's going to get Coupled with that general movement pattern, right?

00:30:15.269 --> 00:30:37.069
So this is the cost of swing changes is that if you, if it becomes too different, then you're going to have to reestablish your awareness and your perception and your coordination of those skills that you spent all that time doing with your previous general movement pattern with what you're now doing, right?

00:30:37.069 --> 00:30:37.869
Which you can do.

00:30:38.450 --> 00:30:42.089
It's not a huge deal, but it just takes time.

00:30:42.511 --> 00:30:42.991
Mhm.

00:30:43.432 --> 00:30:43.642
No

00:30:43.660 --> 00:30:51.789
And so if you got somebody, you know, who's getting ready to go play a tournament, that's why we've always said like, yeah, swing probably needs to be pretty darn low on the list.

00:30:51.789 --> 00:30:56.920
If you got somebody getting ready to go out and play a tournament in the next month or two,

00:30:57.332 --> 00:30:59.852
people are so willy nilly about changing their swing.

00:31:00.089 --> 00:31:02.730
I know it's, it's, it's unbelievable.

00:31:02.836 --> 00:31:03.717
It's crazy to me.

00:31:03.946 --> 00:31:04.446
And I,

00:31:05.319 --> 00:31:06.140
Good players too.

00:31:06.140 --> 00:31:06.549
It's

00:31:06.666 --> 00:31:09.086
I think it's just because we're inundated with swing stuff all the

00:31:09.230 --> 00:31:10.549
like the only option they're aware of.

00:31:10.946 --> 00:31:14.037
yeah, people are just inundated with swings up all the time.

00:31:14.436 --> 00:31:16.866
If you talk about process, no one's interested.

00:31:16.876 --> 00:31:18.626
You lose them in like 20 seconds, right?

00:31:18.626 --> 00:31:23.457
Unless the very intelligent listeners, the golf intervention podcasts are interested in that.

00:31:23.906 --> 00:31:26.926
But I was listening to another podcast, completely unrelated.

00:31:26.936 --> 00:31:27.686
And the guy, okay.

00:31:28.086 --> 00:31:34.067
Um, was saying that he had a, it was an interview and he was saying, yeah, I've got a health and wellness podcast.

00:31:34.067 --> 00:31:39.007
And he said, what you really want to tell people is it starts with mindset.

00:31:39.336 --> 00:31:39.727
It starts

00:31:40.035 --> 00:31:40.694
Yes.

00:31:40.707 --> 00:31:44.487
know, the process, it starts with all these things, you know, you can build up.

00:31:44.981 --> 00:31:46.771
But people, people don't want to hear it.

00:31:46.852 --> 00:31:51.082
They want to say they want three quick tips to losing 10 pounds in a week.

00:31:51.082 --> 00:31:51.521
And like,

00:31:52.164 --> 00:31:52.825
Just do this.

00:31:52.825 --> 00:31:56.477
Yeah, for sure.

00:31:56.477 --> 00:31:57.694
Yeah.

00:31:57.922 --> 00:32:01.362
will say, like, once you click on one swing tip on your Instagram, it just.

00:32:01.461 --> 00:32:15.372
Your, your feed is inundated with all these things and these people that are trying to make their, and I'm not trying to be, I'm not trying to be critical, but a lot of the time is, it's just young instructors that are trying to make a name for themselves somehow, right?

00:32:15.872 --> 00:32:18.083
And it's like popping up in my feed and it's.

00:32:18.542 --> 00:32:20.762
You know, you must do these three things on your backs.

00:32:20.762 --> 00:32:26.440
When I saw this one the other day, these are the three must haves in your backswing, I'm like 30 second video.

00:32:26.440 --> 00:32:28.212
What are you talking about?

00:32:28.261 --> 00:32:31.402
Like, it's just kind of irresponsible sometimes to do stuff like that.

00:32:31.972 --> 00:32:42.673
And I think that affects people's belief system so much, but they see it and they see it and golf tip after golf tip, after golf tip, swing tip, after swing tip, after swing tip.

00:32:43.262 --> 00:32:45.873
And so they're just like, oh, I should try this or I should try that.

00:32:45.873 --> 00:32:47.172
Or I should try this and I should try that.

00:32:48.904 --> 00:32:49.244
Right.

00:32:49.244 --> 00:32:50.404
They're just grasping his straws.

00:32:50.404 --> 00:32:50.744
Right.

00:32:50.837 --> 00:32:51.897
you're grasping at straws.

00:32:51.968 --> 00:32:58.357
it's kind of like buying crypto trading crypto versus like just buying a stock and sitting on it for 20 years or something

00:32:58.404 --> 00:32:58.884
Right.

00:32:59.698 --> 00:33:05.718
you want to, everyone wants the quick, the quick turnaround when it's like, no, no, no, there's a process.

00:33:05.718 --> 00:33:08.737
And if you trust the process, things are going to work out for you in the long run.

00:33:08.807 --> 00:33:09.057
Like.

00:33:09.134 --> 00:33:09.515
Yup.

00:33:09.653 --> 00:33:12.903
In the long term, things are gonna be fine in the short term.

00:33:13.692 --> 00:33:14.913
It's a little trickier, right?

00:33:16.032 --> 00:33:18.163
But you got to be patient with the process.

00:33:18.542 --> 00:33:20.362
And so that's why we focus on process.

00:33:20.362 --> 00:33:31.163
Not as much on swing because I think what we said very early on in this show is like, if you wanted to change your swing, if it came down to that, which it does a lot of times, you got to get a coach.

00:33:32.182 --> 00:33:33.673
I mean, almost have to get a coach

00:33:33.914 --> 00:33:34.224
Yup.

00:33:34.673 --> 00:33:36.163
and a coach that you trust and coach that.

00:33:37.103 --> 00:33:38.063
That can really help you.

00:33:39.742 --> 00:33:49.282
you know, as we talked about, as we talk about, um, the swing itself, this understanding of club kinetics, which we are not going to have a deep, deep talk about that today.

00:33:49.462 --> 00:33:52.051
Like I said, I think trying to go back and

00:33:52.464 --> 00:33:53.234
It'd be a subject.

00:33:53.731 --> 00:33:56.252
yeah, it could be, you know what, maybe it will be a success.

00:33:57.482 --> 00:34:01.813
Okay, the next bonus episode on the sub stack will be on club kinetics.

00:34:02.643 --> 00:34:06.962
So give it, give the listener, Rob, you're like, 30 seconds summation of what that means to you.

00:34:06.982 --> 00:34:10.193
What, what will we cover on that sub stack episode?

00:34:10.864 --> 00:34:11.074
Yeah.

00:34:11.074 --> 00:34:14.844
It's just your options of applying force to the club, right?

00:34:14.844 --> 00:34:21.144
And where that force is directed and in what direction relative to the club center mass, right?

00:34:21.144 --> 00:34:23.780
You also have like, The amount of force, right?

00:34:23.780 --> 00:34:24.449
The rate of force.

00:34:24.449 --> 00:34:28.920
There's a lot of that that can go into it, but again, it's just your options, right?

00:34:28.920 --> 00:34:33.000
So how does it, how do you get a club moving and rotating and swinging in space?

00:34:33.639 --> 00:34:33.869
Right.

00:34:33.869 --> 00:34:36.739
So where are you going to have to do, or how are you going to have to push and pull that thing?

00:34:36.889 --> 00:34:37.190
Right.

00:34:37.190 --> 00:34:43.255
Amazing.

00:34:43.255 --> 00:34:49.320
Yeah.

00:34:49.413 --> 00:34:50.552
teaching golf, right?

00:34:50.552 --> 00:34:59.463
As opposed to like, You know, you can go all the way back to field based kind of instruction from the back in the day, which is really, which was really good.

00:34:59.463 --> 00:35:05.262
And people got people playing off and then golf kind of evolved into a little bit of like a golf guru instruction time.

00:35:05.652 --> 00:35:08.132
I mean, I think the players had their moment, right?

00:35:08.373 --> 00:35:13.362
Ben Hogan kind of started like the players had their moment and they were teaching.

00:35:13.362 --> 00:35:18.043
And then you had all the gurus in the eighties and nineties that were like, come to the Mecca.

00:35:18.333 --> 00:35:19.382
And this is true story.

00:35:19.382 --> 00:35:20.887
Like David Leadbearer is one of those.

00:35:21.068 --> 00:35:39.827
Butch Armins were like, I know two tour players, one LPGA, one PGA tour, both, you know, retired, but they both have stories, similar stories of like going to see David Ledbetter with 30, tour players on the range at one time, you know, just coming because they had, there was a belief that there was an answer that I guess there probably was right.

00:35:39.827 --> 00:35:48.378
If he got results, like he was getting with certain players with the swing stuff that he was teaching, then yeah, go see, go see him, you know?

00:35:49.318 --> 00:35:51.757
This is before track man with the ball and club data.

00:35:51.757 --> 00:35:52.027
So.

00:35:52.963 --> 00:35:58.092
your, what you had was like these teachers that were just considered they were the, they were the ones,

00:35:58.199 --> 00:35:59.159
The gate keeper is right.

00:35:59.159 --> 00:36:00.835
Yeah.

00:36:00.835 --> 00:36:02.510
Yep.

00:36:02.931 --> 00:36:04.253
And I'm not being critical of that.

00:36:04.253 --> 00:36:05.391
I mean, they did awesome, right?

00:36:05.391 --> 00:36:07.012
People had, they were helping people.

00:36:07.023 --> 00:36:09.431
So that was what, that's just what it was at the time.

00:36:09.782 --> 00:36:13.443
It was based on two and it was based on stuff.

00:36:13.443 --> 00:36:21.652
And then, then that kind of moved into, um, like the early computer modeling of the swing, probably, right?

00:36:21.652 --> 00:36:30.362
Like, You know, with the, with the Morad stuff and the golf, the golfing machine kind of influenced a lot of teachers for a long time.

00:36:30.362 --> 00:36:37.253
It was like this, like, uh, mechanical understanding stack and tilt came out of that, out of that moment, right?

00:36:37.262 --> 00:36:40.603
Like all these swings that were kind of named at that point.

00:36:40.652 --> 00:36:40.902
Right.

00:36:40.902 --> 00:36:44.731
And now I think we're just to this point where we're kind of not that that stuff's irrelevant.

00:36:44.731 --> 00:36:50.373
It's not people are still learning from that, but it's like, you know, the evolution is, is in this other stuff.

00:36:50.422 --> 00:37:34.023
I think, um, And so then you have the, well, you and I believe, which is that it's all starts with learning and process, and then you're trying to try to incorporate this stuff in as need be, you know, and I think that if the description I have from three different tour players in the eighties, late eighties, early nineties of people on the range with a swing guru, one person's filming them the, the person's not even watching them hit most of the time they're walking to a little Like cave kind of thing with a, with a videotape VHS tape with the golf instructor and then drawing lines on the screen, like with like marker, right?

00:37:34.023 --> 00:37:34.253
Because I

00:37:34.380 --> 00:37:34.710
Yep.

00:37:36.092 --> 00:37:39.101
and so that was, but that was the tools they had,

00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:40.050
That's right.

00:37:40.072 --> 00:37:44.213
wasn't obviously a whole developmental structure was all about the swing.

00:37:44.693 --> 00:37:47.813
So they were going to see that person for swing advice.

00:37:48.188 --> 00:37:48.737
Period.

00:37:49.469 --> 00:37:49.869
Totally

00:37:50.588 --> 00:37:52.117
And so that's just the way it was.

00:37:52.168 --> 00:37:56.978
And so I think now what you have is a little bit A little bit of a different deal, right?

00:37:56.978 --> 00:38:00.648
And it's, there's all this technology and there's all this insight.

00:38:00.648 --> 00:38:09.728
And I think that we're a little bit, um, we're just trying to take it all in and understand it, you know, AI going to affect it?

00:38:09.728 --> 00:38:13.628
How is, you know, new ideas of swing modeling going to affect it?

00:38:14.467 --> 00:38:23.737
I've been very hesitant to use 3D modeling systems just because I just don't the ranges of outcome that they spit out for the player in front of me.

00:38:23.737 --> 00:38:24.708
I'm just not sure.

00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:25.559
right,

00:38:25.708 --> 00:38:30.608
How relevant it is and how they can practice it and how they can it has to fit in the framework is what I'm

00:38:30.980 --> 00:38:31.429
right?

00:38:31.510 --> 00:38:31.980
Yeah,

00:38:32.047 --> 00:38:33.108
seen it in the framework.

00:38:33.108 --> 00:38:33.878
What do you what about you?

00:38:33.887 --> 00:38:35.307
Does it fit in the framework for you?

00:38:35.307 --> 00:38:37.157
Or how does that how are you seeing it?

00:38:38.170 --> 00:38:41.440
I use it as like a convention buster, right?

00:38:41.440 --> 00:38:51.769
So like if I have a, if I have a, like I use a system that's called motion to coach and they're actually coming to sponsor the, uh, the retreat, which we're really excited about.

00:38:52.250 --> 00:38:59.110
Um, but I use motion to coach a lot as well as smart to move and just show that they might have the belief that they need to stay still.

00:38:59.500 --> 00:38:59.730
Right.

00:38:59.730 --> 00:39:09.469
Or that their pressure doesn't move and I'll show them one of my best ball strikers on smart to move and I'll show them the center pressure going back and forth and kind of a nice flow.

00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:10.139
Right.

00:39:10.139 --> 00:39:12.489
And then that will bust that convention.

00:39:12.619 --> 00:39:12.949
Right.

00:39:13.059 --> 00:39:17.530
And think, and also things about like the direction handle moves at a different times.

00:39:17.530 --> 00:39:17.750
Right.

00:39:17.750 --> 00:39:21.519
So people think, Oh, I've got to pull the handle straight to the ball in the downswing.

00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:25.500
Well, no, like look at some of the best golfers that I have.

00:39:25.710 --> 00:39:28.159
It does not move in a straight line towards the boss.

00:39:28.815 --> 00:39:29.284
Right.

00:39:29.565 --> 00:39:35.905
And so I think from that standpoint, it can be extremely helpful to that end though.

00:39:37.695 --> 00:39:40.465
Would I, would my coaching be that much different if I didn't have it?

00:39:40.485 --> 00:39:40.945
No.

00:39:41.045 --> 00:39:48.125
I mean, I'd say it's not super relevant for 99 percent of the golfers that I see on a day to day basis.

00:39:48.155 --> 00:39:54.684
But again, that doesn't mean like that, that technology is so, so, so valuable for us to learn.

00:39:55.369 --> 00:39:59.190
What to teach in some ways, but then also what not to teach.

00:39:59.349 --> 00:39:59.659
Like

00:39:59.677 --> 00:40:00.047
Yeah.

00:40:00.519 --> 00:40:04.949
at some point, like I could have had the belief that the panel moves in a straight line towards the ball.

00:40:05.550 --> 00:40:05.780
Right.

00:40:05.780 --> 00:40:11.179
But because we have measurement devices that actually look and see what these players are doing, we learned, Oh wait, hold on.

00:40:11.190 --> 00:40:12.980
No, there's, they're not doing that.

00:40:13.250 --> 00:40:13.539
Right.

00:40:13.949 --> 00:40:25.199
So I think that's, that's why I'm so grateful for things like motion to coach and smart to move is that they really inform me on like what not to teach or what not to inundate someone with.

00:40:25.422 --> 00:40:25.802
Right.

00:40:26.503 --> 00:40:27.833
I think that's totally right.

00:40:28.092 --> 00:40:32.902
Um, And, and it's just, it's just like, for me, it's all about the feedback.

00:40:33.452 --> 00:40:44.771
So when we look at, when we kind of go back into kind of the bullet points, we're talking about that ability to take a swing and adapt, adapt it functionally to the

00:40:45.030 --> 00:40:45.510
Yes.

00:40:45.652 --> 00:40:55.222
to create has to come from a place of, I don't know, something that's, that's, that you have a good understanding of what you're doing,

00:40:55.579 --> 00:40:55.929
Right.

00:40:55.929 --> 00:40:56.400
And that's,

00:40:56.483 --> 00:40:57.213
some feedback.

00:40:57.519 --> 00:41:13.650
and that's where like smart to move and emotion to coach have been really helpful is because a lot of my time is spent getting golfers to disassociate the feedback of their swing in their feedback of the skill and their feedback of the shot.

00:41:14.380 --> 00:41:14.679
Right.

00:41:14.679 --> 00:41:20.570
So a lot of times golfers go straight from swing to shot, like direct line, no awareness of skill whatsoever.

00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:24.039
So if we can start to, to understand that middle ground.

00:41:25.494 --> 00:41:39.724
As we work through swing options to change biases, to maybe get someone pain free, to maybe increase, uh, or, or take away some of the constraints, like let's say the way they're swinging just doesn't allow them to swing at a speed that they need to play, right?

00:41:40.414 --> 00:41:44.554
Well, if we're working on swing stuff, just try to reduce those constraints.

00:41:44.605 --> 00:41:45.855
Hey, I want to see the result.

00:41:46.315 --> 00:41:47.815
Like, is it actually moving that bias?

00:41:47.815 --> 00:41:56.605
But then two, I want them to be able to give me feedback absent of the impact spot on the face, absent of the ball flight, right?

00:41:56.644 --> 00:41:57.724
Absent of the ball speed.

00:41:57.775 --> 00:41:59.054
Hey, did you do that or not?

00:41:59.565 --> 00:42:05.045
And so now if I can take a motion to coach, I can show them like, yep, it was definitely different.

00:42:05.175 --> 00:42:06.005
You did something different.

00:42:06.014 --> 00:42:08.255
Now the shot wasn't what you wanted.

00:42:08.344 --> 00:42:10.014
You hit off the heel, but it doesn't matter.

00:42:10.014 --> 00:42:11.545
Like you still did the swing that we wanted.

00:42:11.545 --> 00:42:12.844
We can go and still train.

00:42:13.355 --> 00:42:15.985
Within the context of that same swing to get off the mill to face.

00:42:15.985 --> 00:42:16.525
No problem.

00:42:16.922 --> 00:42:17.242
Yeah.

00:42:18.601 --> 00:42:18.891
Yeah.

00:42:18.963 --> 00:42:26.242
I mean, it's, a, um, As long as, as long as they can get feedback that that's the key, that's

00:42:26.264 --> 00:42:26.554
You bet.

00:42:26.585 --> 00:42:27.514
It 100%.

00:42:27.525 --> 00:42:27.545
Yeah.

00:42:27.753 --> 00:42:28.032
Yeah.

00:42:28.422 --> 00:42:32.322
And so if you're, it's hard to learn and develop without closing that loop down.

00:42:32.782 --> 00:42:34.362
And I think that's where golfers get stuck.

00:42:34.362 --> 00:42:37.773
So the golf swing, we're talking about the golf swing.

00:42:39.978 --> 00:42:53.637
You know, if you were, if you were coming into this episode trying to figure out how many planes you needed and, you know, what's your wrist angle should be, um, what you, what you hopefully can take away from this episode is there's options, right?

00:42:53.637 --> 00:42:58.996
And if you look, at the swings of great players, see they do things differently.

00:43:00.567 --> 00:43:05.677
I don't love the term biomechanical matchup, although I do understand it.

00:43:06.097 --> 00:43:14.777
I do understand what they're getting at, but what I would say about that is, um, sort of cause and effect match biomechanical matchup.

00:43:15.085 --> 00:43:15.494
yeah.

00:43:15.597 --> 00:43:18.677
It kind of, again, horseshoes people a little bit, I think

00:43:18.684 --> 00:43:19.264
Yes.

00:43:19.856 --> 00:43:20.367
Okay.

00:43:20.456 --> 00:43:24.996
Um, you know, you're, you're, you're doing this one thing in your back swing.

00:43:24.996 --> 00:43:26.396
So you have to do this in your back

00:43:26.594 --> 00:43:27.184
Mm hmm.

00:43:28.117 --> 00:43:29.827
that matches up or whatever.

00:43:30.175 --> 00:43:30.655
Yeah.

00:43:31.016 --> 00:43:34.956
I think again, it's a way to communicate with people, which is fine.

00:43:35.436 --> 00:43:36.266
Um, at the

00:43:36.275 --> 00:43:37.675
It quote unquote makes sense.

00:43:37.675 --> 00:43:38.175
Right.

00:43:38.286 --> 00:43:38.876
makes sense.

00:43:38.956 --> 00:43:40.536
It makes, um,

00:43:40.775 --> 00:43:41.525
Doesn't mean it's right.

00:43:41.797 --> 00:43:49.286
but at the end of the day, I think that when you, when you listen to some of that jargon, it's like, there's just so much.

00:43:49.396 --> 00:43:53.806
There's so much information given to the students saying, do this and do this and do this, then do

00:43:53.875 --> 00:43:54.375
Mm hmm.

00:43:54.407 --> 00:43:54.797
it.

00:43:54.797 --> 00:43:56.146
Then do do then do.

00:43:56.206 --> 00:43:58.266
And it's like, all this stuff over and over and over again.

00:43:58.936 --> 00:44:16.327
And, um, and, uh, and again, I think it can work, but what I'm saying is, I think that if the student is really learning and understanding a lot of that stuff's coming from them, they're asking questions or understanding their understanding is pushing them towards a skill.

00:44:16.726 --> 00:44:29.467
And then when it comes from inside of the student, when it's organic in that way, guided by a coach who's asking them questions or given them feedback, they ask questions and then they go, Oh, I understand what that means to me.

00:44:29.916 --> 00:44:31.527
I understand what it means to me,

00:44:31.905 --> 00:44:32.184
Yeah.

00:44:32.217 --> 00:44:34.137
connecting the dots for myself.

00:44:34.527 --> 00:44:36.827
Then when they take it out of there, it's theirs.

00:44:36.836 --> 00:44:37.777
They have ownership in it.

00:44:38.556 --> 00:44:39.706
They have the ownership in it.

00:44:39.927 --> 00:44:42.376
It is not your concept of the swing.

00:44:42.835 --> 00:44:43.235
Totally.

00:44:43.867 --> 00:44:44.637
them towards it.

00:44:45.456 --> 00:44:47.567
their understanding is what matters, right?

00:44:47.567 --> 00:44:50.976
And this is where I feel like coaching becomes such an important thing.

00:44:50.976 --> 00:45:00.496
And this is what I try to reiterate with all my young instructors is like, you're going to have to, at some point, see it through a little bit of a lens of a whatever, because you're just learning.

00:45:00.507 --> 00:45:01.726
You're learning the cause and effect.

00:45:01.726 --> 00:45:03.487
You're learning these things.

00:45:03.496 --> 00:45:04.976
Like, how does this.

00:45:05.356 --> 00:45:09.226
Make this skill, or what am I trying to do, but it's all about communication.

00:45:09.226 --> 00:45:13.367
And when that student can come out of there and go, I really learned something today.

00:45:13.786 --> 00:45:16.306
It's it makes sense to me, right?

00:45:16.617 --> 00:45:18.817
And it might be different than the next person that comes in.

00:45:18.818 --> 00:45:28.157
That coach is that person on to gain a higher level of understanding that really helps them in the long term develop.

00:45:28.257 --> 00:45:28.657
Right?

00:45:29.117 --> 00:45:29.586
And.

00:45:29.922 --> 00:45:42.621
If you, is why I never once put like side by side swings, like Mrs Smith here's Nelly Korda, right?

00:45:42.675 --> 00:45:43.074
right.

00:45:43.074 --> 00:45:48.342
Right, right.

00:45:48.342 --> 00:45:50.974
Right.

00:45:51.041 --> 00:45:51.702
five feet five.

00:45:52.561 --> 00:45:53.231
I digress.

00:45:53.231 --> 00:45:53.512
Right?

00:45:53.762 --> 00:45:59.222
Oh, the top of the spring, you know, you're you look at this and where your club is where Nelly's club is right?

00:45:59.222 --> 00:45:59.286
Okay.

00:45:59.414 --> 00:45:59.875
Right.

00:46:00.025 --> 00:46:06.735
Yeah.

00:46:06.735 --> 00:46:13.445
Yeah.

00:46:13.445 --> 00:46:20.155
Yep.

00:46:20.206 --> 00:46:21.056
but let's just watch it.

00:46:21.237 --> 00:46:23.067
Or let's just watch Shane Lowry.

00:46:23.077 --> 00:46:25.356
Like he, he hits this certain type of ball flight.

00:46:25.356 --> 00:46:26.367
Let's watch what he's doing.

00:46:26.766 --> 00:46:29.237
See if you can figure out why he might be able to pull that off.

00:46:30.512 --> 00:46:32.452
And then they ask me questions and they say things.

00:46:32.452 --> 00:46:35.271
We have a conversation and again, learning happens.

00:46:35.273 --> 00:46:37.541
I mean, you've watched me teach for many years, right?

00:46:37.541 --> 00:46:42.382
So I think that those those moments are so impactful for the student

00:46:42.875 --> 00:46:43.094
Yep.

00:46:43.235 --> 00:46:58.695
Okay.

00:46:58.782 --> 00:47:04.371
Robbie and I are saying here, it's not a willy nilly lighthearted, Hey, I'm going to change my swing tomorrow.

00:47:04.371 --> 00:47:04.931
Kind of thing.

00:47:05.081 --> 00:47:05.271
Like,

00:47:05.394 --> 00:47:05.574
hmm.

00:47:06.161 --> 00:47:09.112
man, I think if we could just get golfers a little bit away from that.

00:47:09.507 --> 00:47:11.047
And working more on their skills.

00:47:11.047 --> 00:47:15.286
And then when they feel like they've run into a wall with their skills, guess what?

00:47:15.286 --> 00:47:16.567
There's a gap in my skillset.

00:47:16.956 --> 00:47:19.416
Let me go find a good coach and see if they can help me.

00:47:20.186 --> 00:47:22.586
I need a swing change to accomplish that?

00:47:22.626 --> 00:47:26.476
And a lot of times the answer is yes, they do need a little bit of a tweak here.

00:47:26.476 --> 00:47:26.777
There.

00:47:27.025 --> 00:47:27.394
Right.

00:47:27.394 --> 00:47:31.775
And in not all swing changes arise as intentional swing changes.

00:47:31.784 --> 00:47:33.824
So like a lot of times it's a concept thing.

00:47:33.945 --> 00:47:37.815
It was like, okay, what is your belief around how club head speed is created?

00:47:37.824 --> 00:47:38.135
Right?

00:47:38.155 --> 00:47:38.724
Like that's a.

00:47:38.974 --> 00:47:40.375
Big, big, big one.

00:47:41.005 --> 00:47:41.284
Right.

00:47:41.284 --> 00:47:47.554
And if you can find a coach that can start to strip away some of those constraints for you, you never know, like your swing.

00:47:47.974 --> 00:47:56.565
If you take that constraint away, you never know how your swing is going to develop over time, but it's not, you never actually put your attention on changing your swing, right?

00:47:56.594 --> 00:48:07.005
Like that's the, one of the big things that we want to get across is like how far down the line that can be in oftentimes should be, I don't like using the word should, but.

00:48:07.784 --> 00:48:35.494
It's my belief, um, especially for, for highly established players, even like low to mid handicaps, like they've got, they're playing every single weekend, like they're going out there playing with their buds, like their runway to actually change something is objectively really small, unless they're at the country club of Virginia and they have a, an amazing indoor facility they can use throughout the winter and actually, you know, use it, use it for that way.

00:48:35.494 --> 00:48:38.445
But a lot of times, like, especially in Virginia, yeah.

00:48:39.730 --> 00:48:46.809
You know, we put the clubs down for throughout the winter and then we're playing, we pick it up in the spring and we're playing right away.

00:48:46.809 --> 00:48:48.280
So it's like, it's just.

00:48:48.840 --> 00:48:51.090
It's not going to happen for a lot of players.

00:48:51.099 --> 00:48:57.849
Like they're not going to be able to actually change the, the macro aspect of how they're swinging a golf club.

00:48:58.289 --> 00:48:59.030
Good news.

00:48:59.449 --> 00:49:01.920
You can dramatically change it with golfer's ball flight.

00:49:02.340 --> 00:49:06.340
You can get them swinging faster and get the ball going faster off the face.

00:49:06.650 --> 00:49:10.469
You can make a massive change to how they enjoy and play the game.

00:49:11.239 --> 00:49:30.099
Without and you can make a massive change in their swing without putting their attention on it, getting them down these rabbit holes of, Oh, I have to do this and I have to do this and I have to do this to be successful because what we've learned from dr prior is that the more constriction that we give you, the less space that you have.

00:49:30.780 --> 00:49:31.139
Right.

00:49:31.230 --> 00:49:33.309
And then what tends to happen?

00:49:33.309 --> 00:49:34.300
We don't play freely.

00:49:34.300 --> 00:49:36.679
We don't have access to the skills that we've developed.

00:49:37.389 --> 00:49:37.679
Right.

00:49:37.719 --> 00:49:41.960
And then our psychology and our movement start to move in the undesired direction.

00:49:41.960 --> 00:49:43.699
So just keep that in mind.

00:49:43.699 --> 00:49:50.699
Like putting, putting a golfer's attention on changing their motion is does not come without cost.

00:49:50.730 --> 00:49:52.059
It does not come without risk.

00:49:52.659 --> 00:49:58.184
Um, And you better know what skill you're trying to bias, right?

00:49:58.235 --> 00:50:00.385
To understand, Hey, we're just biasing it.

00:50:00.394 --> 00:50:04.664
You're just moving the standard, like the, the center of dispersion a little bit.

00:50:05.007 --> 00:50:05.376
Yeah.

00:50:06.215 --> 00:50:07.925
it doesn't mean you're going to hit this next shot.

00:50:07.934 --> 00:50:08.355
Great.

00:50:09.264 --> 00:50:09.485
Right.

00:50:09.844 --> 00:50:11.494
There's no guarantees here.

00:50:11.974 --> 00:50:21.875
Um, I think the more that we can separate the skill from the swing, from the shot, um, I think we can get golfers really on a, on a much.

00:50:22.394 --> 00:50:25.304
More a steadier, longer term path of improvement

00:50:25.791 --> 00:50:27.492
Yeah, agree.

00:50:27.871 --> 00:50:33.291
And to your point, like, when you go after a skill change, sometimes the swing changes, it just

00:50:33.485 --> 00:50:35.434
as a result of developing that skill.

00:50:35.434 --> 00:50:36.425
Right, exactly.

00:50:36.862 --> 00:50:42.172
I'm not picking on this, but if you're just judging, like you put some 3d sensors on them and there's big time scooper, right?

00:50:42.181 --> 00:50:42.442
Like

00:50:42.900 --> 00:50:43.289
Yeah.

00:50:43.442 --> 00:50:49.052
doesn't move laterally and transition weights, you know, pressures on their back foot and impact.

00:50:49.052 --> 00:50:49.311
Right?

00:50:49.612 --> 00:50:51.101
they're flipping their wrists.

00:50:51.121 --> 00:50:53.431
I'm trying to use like basic terminology for the listener.

00:50:53.431 --> 00:50:53.702
Right?

00:50:55.552 --> 00:50:58.862
all of a sudden you say to them, like, well, and I know you, you do that.

00:50:58.862 --> 00:51:02.121
Like, how do you, how does, how does the ball get off the ground?

00:51:02.121 --> 00:51:02.231
Okay.

00:51:03.389 --> 00:51:03.809
Right.

00:51:04.139 --> 00:51:04.920
Yeah, exactly.

00:51:05.001 --> 00:51:05.092
it?

00:51:05.722 --> 00:51:07.871
Well, a lot of times they don't realize it.

00:51:07.891 --> 00:51:14.311
Maybe even consciously, sometimes kind of someone's not that they're literally trying to fit the bottom of the club under the ball

00:51:14.360 --> 00:51:15.050
Yes,

00:51:15.092 --> 00:51:16.251
and lift it up, right?

00:51:16.251 --> 00:51:16.911
You see, it's a lot

00:51:16.960 --> 00:51:17.440
correct.

00:51:17.581 --> 00:51:18.802
an adult beginners

00:51:19.480 --> 00:51:19.900
Right.

00:51:20.202 --> 00:51:21.052
describe to them.

00:51:21.081 --> 00:51:22.262
Hey, let's check this out.

00:51:22.262 --> 00:51:24.371
I'm gonna show you, I'm gonna show you how the ball goes up in the air.

00:51:24.811 --> 00:51:26.722
You just described low point to him.

00:51:26.722 --> 00:51:28.552
You described loft like

00:51:28.639 --> 00:51:29.090
Mm-hmm

00:51:29.411 --> 00:51:31.822
on the face and you give them the club back.

00:51:31.842 --> 00:51:33.072
Let me see a couple of practice swings.

00:51:33.092 --> 00:51:34.251
Let me see if you can hit the ground.

00:51:35.311 --> 00:51:42.302
where the ball would be right and the next thing, you know, what's happening, they're shifting their weight,

00:51:42.869 --> 00:51:43.469
Exactly.

00:51:43.672 --> 00:51:45.452
The low point is moved forward.

00:51:45.882 --> 00:51:47.202
They're not on their back foot.

00:51:47.202 --> 00:51:48.722
So the swing change

00:51:49.179 --> 00:51:49.599
Mm-hmm

00:51:49.621 --> 00:51:52.492
the skill change, Right.

00:51:52.552 --> 00:51:56.681
And it was, it was not about changing the swing to change the skill.

00:51:57.431 --> 00:51:59.632
changing the concept of what they were doing to

00:51:59.659 --> 00:52:00.679
Yeah, exactly

00:52:00.922 --> 00:52:03.431
and then their swing athletically adapted.

00:52:03.431 --> 00:52:08.492
So I think a lot of times we're just, we're just doing it a little bit backwards, right?

00:52:08.492 --> 00:52:13.112
They were doing a little bit backwards and then, you know, we're making it a lot harder on the student or

00:52:13.139 --> 00:52:13.530
Yes,

00:52:14.001 --> 00:52:16.282
potentially than it needs to be, right?

00:52:16.782 --> 00:52:19.601
And so what did that student gain from that discussion?

00:52:19.902 --> 00:52:21.902
A, they gained an idea of what the skills are.

00:52:22.362 --> 00:52:26.592
B, they gained this actual natural athletic motion without even thinking about it.

00:52:27.286 --> 00:52:29.586
So they're doing it without trying to do it.

00:52:29.927 --> 00:52:31.896
So as again, going back to Dr.

00:52:31.896 --> 00:52:35.186
Pryor, they're, they're being, they're not doing

00:52:35.460 --> 00:52:36.030
yes.

00:52:36.387 --> 00:52:36.606
So they're

00:52:36.909 --> 00:52:37.449
Love it.

00:52:37.780 --> 00:52:37.989
Yeah.

00:52:38.409 --> 00:52:38.980
Hundred percent.

00:52:39.447 --> 00:52:40.536
It is what it is.

00:52:40.536 --> 00:52:43.416
So again, so we're referencing a couple episodes today, Dr.

00:52:43.416 --> 00:52:44.556
Pryor, Dr.

00:52:44.567 --> 00:52:44.827
Mike

00:52:44.989 --> 00:52:47.150
It's like every episode now, we tell people

00:52:47.306 --> 00:52:47.757
Dr.

00:52:47.835 --> 00:52:48.554
listen to that one.

00:52:48.925 --> 00:52:49.275
Right.

00:52:49.347 --> 00:52:50.027
check them out.

00:52:50.077 --> 00:52:51.376
I'm going to link them in the show notes.

00:52:51.387 --> 00:52:51.666
Why not?

00:52:51.666 --> 00:52:54.547
I know you can't find them anyway, but why not make it easier on the listener?

00:52:55.007 --> 00:52:55.916
The point is.

00:52:57.317 --> 00:53:02.956
We've learned a lot from those guys over time, they're, they're influencing people like Dr.

00:53:02.956 --> 00:53:03.257
Mike.

00:53:03.317 --> 00:53:03.637
Dr.

00:53:03.637 --> 00:53:09.327
Mike, maybe isn't as well known as those other guys, but there's other people in that space that are influencing, right?

00:53:09.327 --> 00:53:11.786
They're influencing in a similar way.

00:53:11.896 --> 00:53:20.217
And so I think that the point that Robbie and I were trying to make to the listener, I think we've pulled off.

00:53:20.217 --> 00:53:21.007
I'm excited about it.

00:53:21.016 --> 00:53:22.166
Hopefully we've pulled this off.

00:53:22.206 --> 00:53:23.766
Listener is.

00:53:25.041 --> 00:53:25.952
The golf swing.

00:53:26.322 --> 00:53:32.402
It's really based on you, the person, It's really based on you, the person, and it shouldn't be taken lightly.

00:53:32.402 --> 00:53:38.331
When you, when you change your swing, you should have a process for that and you should work through what we've talked about before.

00:53:38.331 --> 00:53:39.711
This framework of skill development.

00:53:40.541 --> 00:53:42.092
Go back to just our last few.

00:53:42.141 --> 00:53:46.791
Not the, well, you could listen to my cave, but those two other episodes, full length episodes we

00:53:47.119 --> 00:53:47.500
Hmm.

00:53:47.661 --> 00:53:56.161
Where we talked about the skills, the framework building up to this, and we, we did that episode, when to make swing changes, which I've gotten tons of feedback on that

00:53:56.349 --> 00:53:56.750
Yeah,

00:53:57.552 --> 00:54:09.981
Um, and here we are, we're at swing changes we tried to do this episode as like, okay, if the low points this, you might have these options and it just was, it was ridiculous.

00:54:10.541 --> 00:54:12.981
A, because we don't teach like that anyway, necessarily.

00:54:12.981 --> 00:54:13.202
Like

00:54:13.300 --> 00:54:13.750
We don't.

00:54:13.769 --> 00:54:14.000
Yeah,

00:54:14.032 --> 00:54:15.851
We don't communicate it that way all the

00:54:15.940 --> 00:54:16.300
no,

00:54:16.831 --> 00:54:18.302
So we knew it was crap.

00:54:18.302 --> 00:54:18.842
So we got rid of it.

00:54:19.302 --> 00:54:19.931
Here we are.

00:54:20.411 --> 00:54:22.791
I think we, but hopefully we did better this time.

00:54:23.342 --> 00:54:32.561
So, um, I think that in summation, hopefully you've learned a little bit of something, anything else you want to add to the, uh, to the story tonight?

00:54:32.561 --> 00:54:33.242
Rob fails.

00:54:33.242 --> 00:54:37.501
Yeah.

00:54:37.559 --> 00:54:37.849
right?

00:54:37.869 --> 00:54:50.090
There are a few things that the research has shown us that most, if not all elite ball strikers, foreign professionals do.

00:54:50.635 --> 00:54:52.414
Pretty similarly, right?

00:54:53.164 --> 00:54:57.155
Um, it's only a couple, it's like two or three things.

00:54:57.275 --> 00:55:03.485
Um, I think we're, this is either going to be a sub stack or maybe the next episode, but it's not what you think.

00:55:04.449 --> 00:55:07.110
It's not like the position of the arms at the top.

00:55:07.110 --> 00:55:09.099
It's not the clubface position.

00:55:09.099 --> 00:55:10.679
It's not the position halfway down.

00:55:10.690 --> 00:55:14.159
It's not the, the, uh,

00:55:14.282 --> 00:55:14.871
style

00:55:14.949 --> 00:55:15.349
right.

00:55:15.349 --> 00:55:16.329
Yeah, exactly.

00:55:16.340 --> 00:55:16.780
Yeah.

00:55:17.050 --> 00:55:17.300
Yeah.

00:55:17.320 --> 00:55:21.320
It's, it's, it's a lot of stuff that you can't really see that well,

00:55:21.652 --> 00:55:22.112
Yeah.

00:55:22.550 --> 00:55:28.019
which is why again, I'm of the opinion and I'm sharing this on video that this number of golfers.

00:55:28.815 --> 00:55:35.324
I'm making a zero, this number of golfers, uh, need to video their swing and look at their swing.

00:55:36.034 --> 00:55:36.474
I just don't,

00:55:36.882 --> 00:55:37.592
bold statement.

00:55:38.012 --> 00:55:39.092
Bold statement.

00:55:39.405 --> 00:55:40.394
because here's the deal.

00:55:40.454 --> 00:55:42.815
the only thing they're going to look at is geometry anyway.

00:55:43.105 --> 00:55:48.344
Like, and there's nothing GM geometrically that all the best golf.

00:55:49.030 --> 00:55:51.630
All the best players or ball strikers do commonly.

00:55:51.659 --> 00:55:54.010
So like, what are we doing

00:55:54.442 --> 00:55:54.672
And

00:55:54.869 --> 00:55:55.289
basically?

00:55:55.309 --> 00:55:55.570
Like,

00:55:56.141 --> 00:56:20.297
you know, I want to add this and I know we, we made this point a couple episodes ago, but if it's in here right in this moment, too, if your notion of the golf swing is that there's perfect positions that you're going to perfectly repeat, Time and time again to hit your ball right in the middle of the clubface or the square clubface or whatever ball flight you're going to hit, and you're just going to repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, and you're going to train that through repetition, and then change it.

00:56:20.327 --> 00:56:21.586
And it's never going to change.

00:56:22.436 --> 00:56:24.646
you're just setting yourself up for a tough.

00:56:25.132 --> 00:56:26.271
Time and golf, right?

00:56:26.731 --> 00:56:40.822
And you have to have adaptability and you have to understand function and you have to understand who you are as a person and how you move and how you learn and how, you know, how you can judge your skills and change your skills and adapt.

00:56:41.262 --> 00:56:50.561
And, and I thought that Mike Kay said something that I just have to wrap my mind around a little bit more, is he was talking about tuning the club.

00:56:51.199 --> 00:56:51.719
yes,

00:56:52.501 --> 00:56:57.472
And I just got to wrap my mind around that one a little bit more because I, I know what he's talking about.

00:56:57.880 --> 00:56:58.610
Oh, for sure.

00:56:58.711 --> 00:57:00.211
almost an unmentionable thing

00:57:00.280 --> 00:57:01.530
It's a state of being.

00:57:01.530 --> 00:57:04.449
I think, I think you're just present with the club.

00:57:05.070 --> 00:57:07.090
I don't think you're trying to force anything.

00:57:07.090 --> 00:57:08.849
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:57:08.961 --> 00:57:12.431
like, it's almost like golf swing nirvana.

00:57:13.492 --> 00:57:16.601
like the culmination of like we

00:57:16.679 --> 00:57:19.000
mentioned it in like you and I have both experienced it.

00:57:19.000 --> 00:57:19.579
Like, yep.

00:57:19.710 --> 00:57:21.809
I felt like I had all the time in the world there.

00:57:21.809 --> 00:57:23.219
I knew exactly where the club was the whole time.

00:57:23.579 --> 00:57:23.610
Right.

00:57:24.431 --> 00:57:24.672
Right.

00:57:24.722 --> 00:57:32.606
But you're, and again, I think the more we constrain, the more constraints we have, The less likely we're ever going to get to a place like that.

00:57:32.920 --> 00:57:33.449
Totally agree.

00:57:33.460 --> 00:57:36.860
The more you think you're like, you have to do X, Y, Z.

00:57:37.849 --> 00:57:40.010
I think the less likely you experienced that.

00:57:40.496 --> 00:57:46.697
so that's why and again, I don't want to leave this episode with anybody thinking we were being critical of any instructor.

00:57:47.047 --> 00:57:47.536
We are not.

00:57:48.266 --> 00:57:50.056
I think people do the best that they can.

00:57:50.777 --> 00:57:52.097
People communicate differently.

00:57:52.117 --> 00:57:53.197
People learn differently.

00:57:53.527 --> 00:57:58.246
People had different tools at different times and in the world and in life, and they've all done great.

00:57:58.297 --> 00:57:59.777
I would never criticize anybody.

00:57:59.777 --> 00:58:01.177
I mean, I mentioned names today.

00:58:01.436 --> 00:58:01.956
David Ledbetter.

00:58:01.976 --> 00:58:04.137
David Ledbetter is one of the greatest instructors of

00:58:04.280 --> 00:58:04.949
Legend.

00:58:05.157 --> 00:58:05.976
Yeah, he's a legend.

00:58:05.976 --> 00:58:07.126
So I'm not, I'm not being critical.

00:58:07.126 --> 00:58:11.376
I'm just telling you what it was like to go see him in the 90s from the that I had heard.

00:58:11.867 --> 00:58:18.621
So the point is, um, And I don't know that I would teach the golf swing just like David Ledbetter does, and I think that's okay, too.

00:58:19.101 --> 00:58:24.811
The point is, um, you have, you have options.

00:58:25.211 --> 00:58:28.402
And so if you believe you don't have options, like, I have to do this.

00:58:28.431 --> 00:58:29.952
That's why I said I don't love the matchup thing.

00:58:29.952 --> 00:58:32.072
I understand what people are communicating there.

00:58:32.731 --> 00:58:36.217
Like, oh, if you do this, then you have to do this thing to match it up.

00:58:36.956 --> 00:58:37.786
Well, I mean,

00:58:37.789 --> 00:58:40.489
But like, there's no such thing as there's no such thing as cause and effect.

00:58:40.489 --> 00:58:40.849
Anyway,

00:58:41.516 --> 00:58:43.606
well, that'll be part of our other episode.

00:58:44.036 --> 00:58:46.757
We, we don't have enough time to talk about how Rob Bales just

00:58:46.980 --> 00:58:47.440
that's a,

00:58:47.806 --> 00:58:48.077
There's no

00:58:48.190 --> 00:58:55.440
that, that's a, that's a, that's a very, very poor misunderstanding of how this all works is cause and effect.

00:58:55.489 --> 00:58:57.130
That's like my, one of my least favorite things ever.

00:58:57.597 --> 00:59:00.126
So it's just, you have this swing.

00:59:00.646 --> 00:59:03.706
And again, we're, we're going to do a sub stack on the, on the club kinetics.

00:59:03.717 --> 00:59:06.016
And we might add something else into that as well.

00:59:06.317 --> 00:59:08.106
We'll see how deep that goes.

00:59:08.556 --> 00:59:12.237
Um, but that'll be our next bonus episode, which we will record in the next few days.

00:59:12.626 --> 00:59:20.536
And I kind of feel like that whole Mike K tuned in the club thing, which is so cool.

00:59:21.257 --> 00:59:23.717
that's just like the culmination of what we were just talking about.

00:59:23.855 --> 00:59:25.804
Yeah, it's like your access to skills.

00:59:26.021 --> 00:59:27.032
place where

00:59:27.034 --> 00:59:27.375
Yeah.

00:59:27.652 --> 00:59:38.552
at one with what you're doing you can literally just adapt your skills in a moment in time and just be, you know, just be with the ball flight.

00:59:38.952 --> 00:59:46.311
And I know that sounds a little Zen and I am no, I am not a Zen guy at all, but the point is, it's just, it's a state that we've been in.

00:59:46.311 --> 00:59:47.461
If you've played really good golf,

00:59:47.525 --> 00:59:48.434
Oh, a hundred percent.

00:59:48.664 --> 00:59:49.085
Yeah.

00:59:49.121 --> 00:59:53.581
not there right now is Victor Hoffman, and it's tough to listen to Victor talk right now.

00:59:53.974 --> 00:59:54.434
Mm hmm.

00:59:54.702 --> 01:00:05.621
is, if you've heard some of his interviews recently, um, he's really, really in the, in the, like, in the woods, it sounds like, lost in the woods, in the wilderness, kind of like, wandering around with his golf swing.

01:00:06.472 --> 01:00:13.771
but to your point, when he talked about the changes he was making to see certain things, now he can't figure out where he was.

01:00:14.452 --> 01:00:15.242
That's what he keeps saying.

01:00:15.242 --> 01:00:17.121
He said, I was here and I was doing great.

01:00:17.771 --> 01:00:19.681
then I wanted this one extra little thing.

01:00:19.842 --> 01:00:20.961
And now I can't figure out

01:00:21.025 --> 01:00:21.505
I know.

01:00:21.742 --> 01:00:22.152
that I was

01:00:22.244 --> 01:00:30.054
And not to get on through the long of a tangent, but like, I think he needs to accept that you can't step in the same river twice.

01:00:30.594 --> 01:00:31.644
You can't go back in time.

01:00:31.875 --> 01:00:33.235
You can't be who you were

01:00:33.302 --> 01:00:33.472
The

01:00:33.594 --> 01:00:33.885
like,

01:00:34.211 --> 01:00:35.362
we sound really Zen today.

01:00:35.822 --> 01:00:35.992
We

01:00:36.114 --> 01:00:36.505
right.

01:00:37.041 --> 01:00:37.802
or something today.

01:00:38.541 --> 01:00:41.851
point is, um, yeah, that river has changed.

01:00:41.851 --> 01:00:42.222
Right?

01:00:43.054 --> 01:00:43.344
Yeah.

01:00:43.541 --> 01:00:44.402
trying to find that.

01:00:44.402 --> 01:00:48.672
And he's got a good instructor that I think he's working with now from, you know, friend of the pod.

01:00:48.672 --> 01:00:49.431
We'll call him, but

01:00:49.875 --> 01:00:50.184
Yeah.

01:00:50.431 --> 01:00:51.211
hopefully.

01:00:52.237 --> 01:00:53.927
they find a place.

01:00:53.987 --> 01:00:56.467
Hopefully, I mean, he said he had no idea.

01:00:56.476 --> 01:00:58.876
He said his golf swing was trash, I think.

01:00:58.876 --> 01:01:05.117
And the next day he shot 65 at Pimple Beach, you know, like, but that's the talent level of Victor Hovland.

01:01:05.166 --> 01:01:05.556
Like he's

01:01:05.594 --> 01:01:05.844
Yeah.

01:01:05.844 --> 01:01:08.094
His skills lined up on that 65, right?

01:01:08.157 --> 01:01:11.606
up and hopefully his swing starts to get himself to where he can,

01:01:12.454 --> 01:01:12.824
Yeah.

01:01:12.927 --> 01:01:15.617
some, some level of comfort, um, to where he was.

01:01:15.626 --> 01:01:16.197
So I like that.

01:01:16.197 --> 01:01:17.697
You can't step in the same river twice.

01:01:17.856 --> 01:01:18.817
Think about that people.

01:01:19.016 --> 01:01:20.617
You cannot step in the same river twice.

01:01:20.867 --> 01:01:22.847
That's why we talk about adaptability.

01:01:23.255 --> 01:01:23.784
Yes.

01:01:24.496 --> 01:01:25.086
day to day.

01:01:25.086 --> 01:01:26.306
Tiger Woods talked about this.

01:01:26.306 --> 01:01:27.206
No one listened to him.

01:01:27.206 --> 01:01:31.280
Everybody thought Tiger was crazy and he talked about it constantly.

01:01:31.280 --> 01:01:31.706
Right?

01:01:31.706 --> 01:01:32.132
And.

01:01:32.851 --> 01:01:33.652
is Tiger changing?

01:01:33.722 --> 01:01:34.541
Why is Tiger doing?

01:01:34.541 --> 01:01:36.231
Why is Tiger hit nine shot?

01:01:36.242 --> 01:01:37.782
He should only hit one shot all the time.

01:01:37.791 --> 01:01:40.702
Like, no, like Tiger knew what he was doing.

01:01:40.722 --> 01:01:43.262
He was the greatest of all time for many reasons.

01:01:43.652 --> 01:01:47.172
So anyway, don't think I have anything else to add to the golf swing

01:01:47.224 --> 01:01:49.485
No, I think we, I think we did it.

01:01:49.922 --> 01:01:51.711
I think we covered the things we wanted to cover.

01:01:51.711 --> 01:01:54.192
Again, not being, we were not critical of any money.

01:01:54.222 --> 01:01:55.016
We would never do that.

01:01:55.336 --> 01:01:58.956
We're just trying to say, if you want to tune into our show, here's what we're going to talk about.

01:01:59.277 --> 01:01:59.786
And that's it.

01:01:59.847 --> 01:02:02.407
Cause that's your, if you're listening for our opinion, we gave it.

01:02:02.876 --> 01:02:04.476
And hopefully it was helpful to you.

01:02:04.827 --> 01:02:13.867
So takeaways from today, listen to those other episodes, be don't do change the work on your skills.

01:02:13.867 --> 01:02:19.117
If you have to work on your swing, take a lesson and don't take it lightheartedly because golf swing changes are.

01:02:20.036 --> 01:02:24.777
So thank you for tuning in again to another episode of the golf intervention podcast.

01:02:24.797 --> 01:02:29.197
We're humbled and honored that you listen to our show to be quite honest.

01:02:29.257 --> 01:02:31.907
We're just a couple of guys that can't believe.

01:02:32.036 --> 01:02:35.237
Um, yeah, I mean, we just keep growing and growing.

01:02:35.237 --> 01:02:36.266
It's pretty cool to see.

01:02:36.606 --> 01:02:37.876
We appreciate you tuning in.

01:02:38.117 --> 01:02:43.126
So anyhow, I hope you all, I hope you all have a great evening.

01:02:43.717 --> 01:02:46.757
Good luck with whatever it is that you're doing in golf.

01:02:47.067 --> 01:02:54.246
I hope it's warm where you are at 65 today in Richmond and I'm looking forward to the spring sooner rather than later.

01:02:54.976 --> 01:02:55.927
right, Rob fails.

01:02:57.416 --> 01:02:57.976
Have a good night.

01:02:59.170 --> 01:02:59.730
Good night.

01:02:59.989 --> 01:03:00.360
Cheers.