Sept. 10, 2025

EP 50: Playing from the Rough and Huge Upgrades in Iron Fitting Technology

EP 50: Playing from the Rough and Huge Upgrades in Iron Fitting Technology

Send us a text On this episode of The Golf Intervention Podcast, we dig into three critical areas that can help golfers of all levels play smarter and score better. Topics we cover include: Playing from the Rough:How to assess your lie and choose the right shot.When to take a risk versus when to play safe.How rough affects spin, launch, and distance—and what that means for club selection.The Iron Fitting Revolution with Loft Adjustments:Why iron fitting has changed dramatically thanks to loft...

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Send us a text

On this episode of The Golf Intervention Podcast, we dig into three critical areas that can help golfers of all levels play smarter and score better.

Topics we cover include:

  • Playing from the Rough:
    • How to assess your lie and choose the right shot.
    • When to take a risk versus when to play safe.
    • How rough affects spin, launch, and distance—and what that means for club selection.
  • The Iron Fitting Revolution with Loft Adjustments:
    • Why iron fitting has changed dramatically thanks to loft optimization.
    • How adjusting lofts can fine-tune launch height, spin rates, and carry distance.
    • Why proper gapping throughout your set is essential for consistent scoring.
    • What every golfer should know before buying or tweaking their irons.
  • Lessons from the Lesson Tee:
    • The importance of separating two key skills:
      • Impact location on the clubface (centeredness of strike).
      • Clubface orientation (open vs. closed at impact).
    • Why confusing these two often leads to frustration and misdiagnosis of swing flaws.
    • Practical drills to improve both skills and build more reliable ball flight.

This episode combines on-course strategy, cutting-edge equipment fitting insights, and real teaching takeaways to give you insights you can apply immediately to your game.

For bonus content, subscribe to The Golf Intervention Substack at https://thegolfintervention.substack.com/

Tiger Woods crazy shot from the rough from 184 yards with a pitching wedge   https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zhdXHMtxbbw

WEBVTT

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Welcome back to the Golf Intervention Podcast.

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We're so glad you're tuning in with us this evening.

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We've got a robust full of golf performance, excitement.

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I mean, that sounded pretty snazzy there, Rob, didn't it?

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It sounds like a show title to me.

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We're trying to, we're trying to draw, draw you in listener with our, excitement about the topics we're gonna discuss.

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But what, I mean, we are gonna start off with a topic, I think super exciting.

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Has iron fitting been revolutionized and no one's talking about it?

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So that's gonna be a topic tonight.

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We're gonna take you through.

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A level 1, 2, 3 player discussion on playing from the rough, which is a question from one of my students and avid listener to the show.

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So this is for her.

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She'll know who she is when she hears it, and then we'll do lessons from our lessons, which is kind of a fun way that, we share some insights of things that we see from our lesson t that help you may help you, I should say, the listener with your golf game.

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So, how you doing this evening?

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Rob fails you doing well?

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We're doing great.

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Yeah.

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Had a, had a good full day and, did a little golf school with Hunter today, so, yeah, it was fun.

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Yeah.

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The term golf school, it's interesting, right?

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It's not, yeah.

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I, I'll keep thinking of, of alternative terms, but that's what we're going with.

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an immersive experience.

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We'll say.

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That's what it is.

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Ah, there we go.

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Love it.

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to say that,

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Yeah,

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These are the days where you could teach.

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10 straight hours and not even break a

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percent.

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It was, I had the

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Yeah.

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on all day.

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You spend fall weather in Central Virginia and I am excited about this time of year'cause it's my favorite time of year other than the rack wheat that kills me.

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That's why we didn't

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Mm-hmm.

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the other day because of man allergies were killing me.

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I had no voice.

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But, other than that, it's a great time of year.

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So we are gonna have a discussion.

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I, I kind of teased it at the beginning about.

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Has iron fitting been revolutionized and no one's discussing it?

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I think kind of now why is no one discussing it?

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I think a couple reasons.

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Number one, like who cares?

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It's not that exciting.

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I mean, it is a performance thing, but at the end of the day, you know, like iron fitting isn't like the most exciting topic to talk about in

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Hmm.

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but I will say.

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As someone who club fits a lot and I, I, you know, with my job, and I mentioned it on here before, I teach a lot and I club fit a lot like an in inordinate

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Yeah.

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Wouldn't you say?

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So

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percent.

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Titleist has come out with their new irons, which I think I, I wrote at least a substack about their new irons and ping as some new irons.

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Yep.

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Callaway this year when they brought out the Elite iron fitting set, redid their whole fitting configuration.

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And what we're getting from those three companies is that,, the lofts are very customizable and adjustable.

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For the fitting process and obviously for the ordering process.

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Well, okay.

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Eric, why does, why in the, why does that matter?

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Right.

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Well, here's why it matters because when you're fitting somebody, you're fitting them to an iron that performs at a certain, a certain way to create an optimal shot.

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Right?

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And that optimal shot has a certain height to, it has a certain, what we call land angle.

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It's like the angle that it's coming out of the air on, into the green.

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And then the spin obviously is part of that.

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you're fitting people based on their club speed, you're trying to hit certain optimal heights.

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Do you do much of, do you do much fitting?

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Rob hadn't seen

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really that much.

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Yeah.

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Ping for a few years has had what they call the power spec and

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Mm-hmm.

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they brought the retro spec out and we've had fitting heads with that.

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So power spec is like stronger lofts, and then retrospect is like.

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A combination of weaker lofts, um, and then they have their standard heads, and so you could fit with those and ingest.

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But Titleist right on the Zel now has this fitting set that's unbelievable for, I like, if you haven't checked it out yet, those of you that fit, you've gotta check it out and like, and see it because you've got.

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upright, a standard in a flat setting, and then you've got all the combinations of being able to go up and down in the line, going up and down in the loft, and it's insane.

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so they also came out with, what they call the, the two 50, the T two 50 star, which has weaker lofts to start with.

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It's like almost like a retrospect like, you

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That's pretty cool.

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so.

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I'm fitting lofts, like we do this with dr.

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We've done this with drivers forever, right?

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'cause you're trying to get this peak height to optimize

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Mm-hmm.

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flight.

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I've been fitting lofts, like customizing.

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I will tell you for a few of my students that really struggle, either hitting the ball too high or they've hit the ball too low, I can get'em in the right iron for their, for their, you know, whatever they do kind of naturally, right?

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Without having

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Right.

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So you, you see this with students, Robbie, like, I've got a seven iron in my hand and the peak height, like I've got decent speed.

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I swing it at 70 miles an hour, but the peak height of the shot is 46 feet.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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For whatever reason, you know, and so we as we as instructors are trying to, the, the main, the only real way that we influence that is by getting the dynamic loft up.

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how easy

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Right.

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it to change someone's dynamic loft at Impact?

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Not super easy.

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Let's say one of the harder things we do, I would say, right, because it's hard to separate Dynamic Loft from Face Angle.

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Okay, so let's

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And attacking.

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Yeah.

00:05:39.716 --> 00:05:43.315
so as you're trying to parse that out, think about it this way.

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Dynamic Loft is the loft of the club at Impact on the vertical side of the club face, right?

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That's Loft.

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And then Face Angle, which we talk about and everybody thinks about club face, is the horizontal measurement, right?

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They both have.

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influence on the ball goes.

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And so for someone that delivers the club with too little dynamic loft, that is

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Mm-hmm.

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hard thing to change in my opinion, right?

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Unless you

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I agree.

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point around in some functional way, which again, for a lot

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Yeah.

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actually, isn't that easy?

00:06:17.725 --> 00:06:18.985
So what do we end up doing?

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We end up getting them weaker shafts, like we're trying to get'em like these,

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Yes.

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soft kicky shafts that hit the ball

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Yeah, exactly.

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And with soft and Kicky comes more dispersion typically, right?

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So.

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Now all of a sudden I can take that person and just like fit them to weaker lofts and they're hitting the ball.

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So much be, I mean, it's,

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That's awesome.

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Yeah.

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cra So one player, uh, in particular who've worked with for 15 years on his game, just always hit it low.

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Like it wasn't terribly low, just always low.

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We've always worked

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Yeah,

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and I fit him in two degrees weaker.

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I think it was a Callaway Elite oh my gosh, it's changed.

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It's changed everything for, he's gone from 56 peak height to 72 peak height on seven iron,

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that's crazy how much, much of that changes based off two degrees.

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and by the way, carry distance has gone up 15 yards.

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Oh, sure.

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Yeah.

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So people don't always think about

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Makes sense.

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oh, if I hit it lower, I'll hit it further.

00:07:21.605 --> 00:07:22.565
No, it doesn't work that way.

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There's a peak height

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No,

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that's

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yes.

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So now he

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Yeah,

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a shaft that's the right stiffness loft on the club and the club.

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That's right.

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Like, you know, like isn't a

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yeah,

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that really needed a huge game improvement club.

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He just hit the ball a little low.

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Right?

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So.

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totally.

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And with those, with those really high MO, I.

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Basically high forgiveness club heads.

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A lot of times they put the, the mass really low and back, which tends to help launch it up.

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And then they counteract that as saying, okay, we're gonna strengthen the loss.

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Well, plenty of people who fit into that club, they don't have enough speed anyway.

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Right.

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And their peak height's gonna be too low anyway.

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So like, why are we, why are we strengthening the lofts on those clubs?

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Like, you know, let's, let's keep the lofts standard for a lot and then you'll get on a probably.

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Lower proportion of golfers who have enough speed with that clubhead, and then we can bring the loft down.

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So yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

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I think it's, I wanna say revolutionary to be able to fit the loft that way.

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Um, so kudos to the companies that have done that.

00:08:26.946 --> 00:08:31.625
I mean, I think, I think actually Tailormade, I don't fit with Tailormade a ton.

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I have to be

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me either.

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They

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Yeah.

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sleeve kind of configuration that think you can change the loft a little bit on.

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Mm-hmm.

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Titleist, that fitting set is outrageous.

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The amount of options that you have and the t and the T series irons that they just came out with like a month ago are just unbelievably good.

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So.

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If you haven't tried'em, you're thinking about new irons.

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Go to a good club fitter, um, someone who knows what they're doing, and definitely test out.

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Definitely test out those new T series titles'cause they are just outrageously good and with all the customizable options.

00:09:06.730 --> 00:09:08.921
Um, there's really something for everybody.

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It's pretty, it's pretty awesome.

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Pretty

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Yeah.

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So hopefully that wasn't too nerdy of a discussion.

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I was trying to think of, why.

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Why isn't this a bigger discussion in the world of like,

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Hmm.

00:09:22.421 --> 00:09:31.230
and I, you know, I gotta understand what the, what the general population of golfers, they're not 100% in tune to loss of their irons or

00:09:31.424 --> 00:09:31.754
Yes.

00:09:31.831 --> 00:09:33.030
of a nerdy topic,

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Agree.

00:09:33.945 --> 00:09:34.245
Yeah.

00:09:34.711 --> 00:09:39.120
like in our world of discussions with other teachers or forums, or,

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Mm-hmm.

00:09:39.841 --> 00:09:41.941
haven't heard any dis, it's like zero discussion.

00:09:42.095 --> 00:09:42.514
Mm-hmm.

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start, maybe this will be the start of that discussion.

00:09:45.090 --> 00:09:45.600
there you go.

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There you go.

00:09:47.400 --> 00:09:47.730
you go.

00:09:47.730 --> 00:09:52.230
So I had a question for one of my students playing from the rough.

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Now she is a avid listener, loves the show.

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So we appreciate her enthusiastic support'cause she definitely shares with all her friends that they need to listen to the show.

00:10:02.701 --> 00:10:05.850
And she was just, she's a beginner golfer essentially.

00:10:05.910 --> 00:10:10.451
She's learning quickly., But had a question about playing out of the rough.

00:10:11.304 --> 00:10:11.664
Mm-hmm.

00:10:12.056 --> 00:10:16.285
I would say this time of year, the rough is just in Central Virginia for

00:10:16.375 --> 00:10:16.945
It can be.

00:10:16.945 --> 00:10:17.304
Yeah,

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'cause

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sure.

00:10:18.385 --> 00:10:26.895
outta the summer, the Bermuda, the Bermuda is so healthy we get a little bit of rain a little bit now, temperature's perfect and it is just brutal.

00:10:26.895 --> 00:10:34.796
And on our, our James River course, you know, we're prepping for, our final hosting of one of the champion store playoffs events.

00:10:34.826 --> 00:10:37.426
And so the rough just gets really healthy this time of year.

00:10:38.500 --> 00:10:38.830
Yeah.

00:10:39.431 --> 00:10:40.600
it's really hard to play out of.

00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:46.030
she said, can you do an episode on playing from the rough?

00:10:46.030 --> 00:10:48.191
And I was like, yeah, totally can do that.

00:10:48.671 --> 00:10:48.910
So

00:10:49.105 --> 00:10:49.284
Mm-hmm.

00:10:49.360 --> 00:10:52.841
a pretty complex, almost like you could,

00:10:52.884 --> 00:10:53.455
Oh, yeah.

00:10:53.591 --> 00:10:53.860
yeah.

00:10:53.860 --> 00:11:01.990
There, there's some complexity to playing from the rough because some, there's some, um, decision points, right?

00:11:01.990 --> 00:11:02.591
You almost need a

00:11:02.649 --> 00:11:03.070
Mm-hmm.

00:11:03.221 --> 00:11:04.321
Like you could almost Write

00:11:04.485 --> 00:11:05.235
Decision tree.

00:11:05.235 --> 00:11:05.504
Yeah.

00:11:05.971 --> 00:11:07.051
or a decision tree,

00:11:07.695 --> 00:11:08.024
Yeah.

00:11:08.250 --> 00:11:10.831
of it is based on club at speed and skill,,

00:11:10.931 --> 00:11:11.951
Oh, yes.

00:11:12.476 --> 00:11:13.136
or the same.

00:11:13.136 --> 00:11:13.856
They, they generally

00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:14.421
Mm-hmm.

00:11:14.606 --> 00:11:14.787
go

00:11:14.791 --> 00:11:15.140
Agree.

00:11:15.956 --> 00:11:24.147
and then obviously the type of grass, thick and deep the grass is, how the ball's sitting in it, what shot you're trying to play.

00:11:25.081 --> 00:11:25.500
Mm-hmm.

00:11:25.797 --> 00:11:33.206
you know, um, what you have to go over, what you don't have to go over, how high you need to hit the shot, like what the situation is.

00:11:33.596 --> 00:11:35.366
So there's a lot of decision points.

00:11:35.366 --> 00:11:36.687
We talk about playing from the rough.

00:11:36.687 --> 00:11:39.657
We could probably do a series on playing from the rough, to be honest,

00:11:39.956 --> 00:11:41.186
He legitimately we could.

00:11:41.366 --> 00:11:43.057
nobody listening to that brother, so we gotta.

00:11:44.035 --> 00:11:44.846
Oh, come on.

00:11:44.846 --> 00:11:46.586
You're not, you're not giving us enough credit.

00:11:46.961 --> 00:11:52.932
the person that's like, honey, uh, we're driving to, we're driving to the shore this weekend for a little getaway.

00:11:53.261 --> 00:11:56.831
Can we listen to this two hour episode on playing from the rough?

00:11:57.131 --> 00:11:59.081
Can you imagine how that, how well that would go over?

00:11:59.201 --> 00:12:00.162
Probably not super well.

00:12:00.655 --> 00:12:01.975
Yeah, probably not.

00:12:01.975 --> 00:12:02.426
Great.

00:12:02.456 --> 00:12:02.785
Yeah.

00:12:02.831 --> 00:12:06.422
But I think we can summarize and give'em some jumping off points,, to

00:12:06.676 --> 00:12:07.035
Mm-hmm.

00:12:07.052 --> 00:12:08.042
ways that they can explore.

00:12:08.042 --> 00:12:13.981
So you rob, like in your mind, um, how are you sorting this question out?

00:12:13.981 --> 00:12:14.402
Just,

00:12:14.625 --> 00:12:15.015
Yeah,

00:12:15.091 --> 00:12:16.081
impressions of the question.

00:12:16.081 --> 00:12:17.116
How are you sorting through it right now?

00:12:18.405 --> 00:12:18.796
for sure.

00:12:19.245 --> 00:12:19.456
Yeah.

00:12:19.456 --> 00:12:23.745
So it, it always starts with the, the read, right?

00:12:23.745 --> 00:12:33.196
So a, a lot of playing in the rough is predicting how that lie club ball interaction's gonna gonna work out, right?

00:12:33.855 --> 00:12:41.625
Typically I will break it down into kind of like A, B, C, and then for level three, four golfers, maybe a D, right?

00:12:41.625 --> 00:12:44.235
So you have four real different types of lies.

00:12:45.375 --> 00:12:47.000
A lies might as well be in the fairway.

00:12:47.865 --> 00:12:48.135
Right.

00:12:48.135 --> 00:12:50.806
So no change, you're not doing anything different.

00:12:51.466 --> 00:12:52.725
That's a prediction you're making.

00:12:52.785 --> 00:12:58.605
You might say, all right, I feel like this is gonna come out the no, the exact same as it would off the fairway.

00:12:59.086 --> 00:13:04.605
And you make impact and it comes out way faster and higher, and no spin than you think.

00:13:05.025 --> 00:13:12.346
Sometimes it comes out way lower, dead, no spin., And again, it's, it's just the difference in your prediction.

00:13:12.350 --> 00:13:12.490
So.

00:13:13.091 --> 00:13:14.020
Is it an a lie?

00:13:14.471 --> 00:13:15.640
Meaning like no adjustment?

00:13:16.211 --> 00:13:18.941
Is it a b lie, which would be the ball sitting up.

00:13:18.941 --> 00:13:22.480
So these are gonna be typically your flyers, right?

00:13:22.721 --> 00:13:28.091
Or ones where you could actually hit it high on the face if the arc height is a little too low.

00:13:28.660 --> 00:13:38.326
And again, that's more of a skill of, of perceiving where the ball is in space and matching where the bottom of your swing is to that there's a sea lie, which is.

00:13:39.355 --> 00:13:40.196
Sitting down.

00:13:40.706 --> 00:13:43.255
All right, so typically the ball's gonna come out slower.

00:13:43.985 --> 00:13:50.015
And there's a, there's a element with this as far as okay, predicting how much stuff you have underneath the golf ball.

00:13:50.696 --> 00:13:55.316
That's gonna determine again, the AR height and a little bit of, kind of your loft affordances.

00:13:55.316 --> 00:13:59.365
Like how much loft can you actually hit out of this, out of this lie?

00:14:00.115 --> 00:14:12.416
And then you have D lies, which are gonna be fescue., Buried, just situations where you literally just have to get it out by any means necessary.

00:14:13.056 --> 00:14:27.216
There's been some crazy DLI where I've seen where it's the fescue and the grass is growing into the grain, and as soon as the club touches the, the grass, it just catches it like crazy and all the momentum stops and you advance the ball about a foot.

00:14:27.216 --> 00:14:27.456
Right?

00:14:27.456 --> 00:14:30.696
So these are the types of lies that, um.

00:14:31.760 --> 00:14:33.410
Are really, they're, they're penalties.

00:14:33.471 --> 00:14:38.211
If you think about, like, if you go and map out a golf course and try to figure out like, Hey, where can I hit it?

00:14:38.211 --> 00:14:39.230
Where can't I hit it?

00:14:39.921 --> 00:14:42.171
Even though they're not penalties by the rules of golf, per se.

00:14:42.201 --> 00:14:48.711
'cause you can find your ball in these areas, probably a, a good idea to go ahead and treat that as a penalty when you're targeting.

00:14:49.311 --> 00:14:56.780
So you have these four main different types of lies, A, B, C, D, and then you have, like you said, the shot that you have.

00:14:57.380 --> 00:14:57.921
Are we.

00:14:58.296 --> 00:15:03.336
Greenside, is this a short iron approach, mid to long iron approach?

00:15:03.725 --> 00:15:05.586
Are we hitting into a par five, right?

00:15:05.586 --> 00:15:06.905
Is this our second shot in a par five?

00:15:06.905 --> 00:15:07.596
Where are we?

00:15:08.285 --> 00:15:12.306
And then probably backing up even before that, who are you as a golfer?

00:15:12.365 --> 00:15:22.765
Are you a level one golfer, level two, level three, or level level four, tor pro?, All of these factors are gonna play into ultimately what you're gonna do.

00:15:23.605 --> 00:15:28.076
But understanding that regardless, every line in the rough is gonna affect three things.

00:15:28.495 --> 00:15:32.995
It's gonna affect the ball speed, it's gonna affect the launch, and it's gonna affect the spin.

00:15:33.716 --> 00:15:34.166
And that's it.

00:15:34.166 --> 00:15:35.155
That's what you need to understand.

00:15:35.155 --> 00:15:43.796
Now, once you get into D lies and sometimes C lies, it can affect the rotation of the club face about the shaft.

00:15:44.245 --> 00:15:49.975
So there's a little bit of prediction with that too, in terms of, okay, is this.

00:15:50.380 --> 00:15:57.610
Grass that the golf club is interacting with, going to change the face rotation by the time I get to impact or not.

00:15:57.640 --> 00:15:57.880
Right.

00:15:57.880 --> 00:16:03.961
And that's, again, that's something that you need to work through and have a strategy for dealing with that, as well.

00:16:03.990 --> 00:16:05.311
But that's a little more rare.

00:16:05.341 --> 00:16:06.780
But it's usually those three things.

00:16:06.841 --> 00:16:08.341
Ball, speed, launch, and spin.

00:16:09.061 --> 00:16:17.671
As a general rule, again, I just worked through a, through D, the, the, the greater the density of material that gets between the face and the ball.

00:16:18.421 --> 00:16:24.421
The lower the launch, the lower the ball speed, the lower the spin, just as a, as a general rule.

00:16:25.051 --> 00:16:29.461
And if you can predict that, well, that's gonna go into the club that you're using as well as the speed that you're using.

00:16:31.140 --> 00:16:35.671
That being said, once you've gone ahead and made your prediction as far as, Hey, what club am I using?

00:16:35.671 --> 00:16:38.431
Speed, what have you, depending on the, the shot that you have.

00:16:39.041 --> 00:16:42.400
A lot of it for, we'll just start with level one golfers.

00:16:43.061 --> 00:16:45.071
A lot of it is just the skill.

00:16:46.331 --> 00:16:49.541
Of managing that arc height relative to where the ball is in space.

00:16:49.541 --> 00:16:51.221
And I'd say that's probably the main thing.

00:16:51.221 --> 00:16:56.530
There's plenty of times where you hit level one golfer hits the ball in the rough and it's almost a little bit easier, right?

00:16:56.530 --> 00:17:03.490
Because the ball, you might have an A lie or a B lie, and the ball's kind of sitting up a little bit, right?

00:17:03.490 --> 00:17:09.431
And for those golfers who, let's say your tendency is for that archive to be a little high or whatnot, like it can work out great.

00:17:10.125 --> 00:17:21.846
There's also situations where level one golfers who maybe have an aversion to hitting the ground or don't quite get the bottom and swing arc as low as, they need to where they get a C lie or a D lie.

00:17:21.846 --> 00:17:32.195
And it's like almost a full shot, maybe a shot and half penalty because it takes'em two to, to get it out of that just because the arc height never got low enough for where the ball was in space.

00:17:32.685 --> 00:17:34.846
So that'd be my main consideration for level one.

00:17:34.935 --> 00:17:37.276
Did you have any, anything else, Eric, for level one?

00:17:37.291 --> 00:17:42.092
for those golfers visualizing, when you say arch height, so there's, there's, there's

00:17:42.300 --> 00:17:42.691
Thank you.

00:17:42.726 --> 00:17:42.945
Yes.

00:17:43.256 --> 00:17:43.546
Yeah.

00:17:43.771 --> 00:17:47.071
Trying to visualize in space where the hula hoop of your swing.

00:17:47.507 --> 00:17:54.757
Arc is, is going relative to the ground, and then there's also, how deep that is relative to the ball, right?

00:17:54.757 --> 00:17:56.376
So higher or lower of the ball.

00:17:56.707 --> 00:17:59.317
Then there's also low point control too, right?

00:17:59.317 --> 00:18:02.977
So the which are, which are tied together, but are different as well.

00:18:03.366 --> 00:18:09.457
And so some of those, like if you're a hang back scooper, have a hard time in the rough, right?

00:18:09.457 --> 00:18:11.287
Because your low point gets.

00:18:12.457 --> 00:18:14.707
And so you start catching the grass early.

00:18:15.666 --> 00:18:17.616
and that's, that's trouble, right?

00:18:17.707 --> 00:18:23.376
Some of the people that that hit well outta the rough are the over the top, steeper, steeper swings,

00:18:23.586 --> 00:18:24.036
Mm-hmm.

00:18:24.606 --> 00:18:32.076
if they really come over the top and get ahead of it and really smash down on it, they can be good outta the rough, actually get the ball outta the rough easier.

00:18:32.436 --> 00:18:37.626
So that can be one of the adjustments that you're making actually, is that I will say that,.

00:18:37.676 --> 00:18:48.267
The biggest issue I see with players, I would say on the level one spectrum, getting out of the rough is a, just controlling the arc in a way that's, it's somewhere predictable, right?

00:18:48.395 --> 00:18:48.746
Yeah.

00:18:48.807 --> 00:18:49.467
and low point.

00:18:50.007 --> 00:18:51.717
The second is speed, like

00:18:51.750 --> 00:18:52.270
Speed.

00:18:52.421 --> 00:18:52.810
Yeah.

00:18:53.366 --> 00:18:53.606
the

00:18:53.651 --> 00:18:55.750
Having literally enough, right?

00:18:55.811 --> 00:18:56.682
get the ball out.

00:18:57.071 --> 00:19:00.821
As you get into the C lie and the D lie, it could still

00:19:00.851 --> 00:19:01.300
Mm-hmm.

00:19:01.842 --> 00:19:02.622
really hard.

00:19:03.101 --> 00:19:03.730
Really tough.

00:19:03.736 --> 00:19:03.865
Yeah.

00:19:03.912 --> 00:19:19.122
you almost have to do is create a strategy for getting just back to the fairway, because you may even look at that shot and go, oh, I mean, I'm, I'm hitting it towards the hole, but I've gotta carry it 20 yards to get outta the rough back to, you

00:19:19.286 --> 00:19:19.675
Mm-hmm.

00:19:19.692 --> 00:19:22.781
it's in that you might have to just go like, I'm not sure I can do that.

00:19:23.592 --> 00:19:25.332
have to go more sideways to the

00:19:25.520 --> 00:19:26.010
Totally.

00:19:26.561 --> 00:19:32.142
Um, if you don't keep score, you may just fluff it up in the rough and play.

00:19:32.142 --> 00:19:35.352
I mean, to be honest, like just pop it up in the rough and try to

00:19:35.605 --> 00:19:36.026
Yeah.

00:19:36.162 --> 00:19:36.582
if you're not

00:19:36.625 --> 00:19:37.076
Yeah.

00:19:37.301 --> 00:19:42.132
anyway, so I would say when you get in the rough, it's a conundrum.

00:19:43.586 --> 00:19:44.217
That's a big word.

00:19:44.217 --> 00:19:45.267
It's a conundrum.

00:19:45.537 --> 00:19:46.017
It's a catch

00:19:46.435 --> 00:19:46.826
Yes.

00:19:47.156 --> 00:19:49.047
a new golfer, because here's the story.

00:19:49.586 --> 00:19:52.527
I've gotta be pretty precise at the bottom of the

00:19:52.556 --> 00:19:54.205
Mm-hmm.

00:19:54.207 --> 00:19:54.217
Mm-hmm.

00:19:54.537 --> 00:20:02.166
what feels like faster that that loss of control we add speed lends to less control the bottom of the

00:20:02.230 --> 00:20:02.651
Mm-hmm.

00:20:03.092 --> 00:20:03.957
So it's really

00:20:04.131 --> 00:20:04.290
sure.

00:20:04.436 --> 00:20:05.186
just really tough.

00:20:05.186 --> 00:20:05.967
Here's the story.

00:20:05.967 --> 00:20:07.047
Don't hit it in the rough.

00:20:07.346 --> 00:20:08.307
Hit it straight.

00:20:08.307 --> 00:20:10.406
Take a golf lesson and get fit really well for

00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:29.020
Um, another, another point I wanted to make is, and this kind of alludes to the, um, the loft fitting stuff that you're talking about with, with irons, is that for a given speed, there's definitely a, an an optimal launch that's gonna give you the most carry.

00:20:29.770 --> 00:20:34.510
So if you have the per, if you have the perception as a, as a level one golfer, like oh, just.

00:20:34.855 --> 00:20:36.715
My longer clubs always go further.

00:20:37.615 --> 00:20:54.026
Well, if you have a sea lie, I would be willing to bet that if you're level one golfer, and let's say you hit your driver less than 180 yards, that a six iron is going to go shore than a seven iron out of the roof

00:20:54.692 --> 00:20:55.112
Mm-hmm.

00:20:55.796 --> 00:21:02.306
and a sea lie, and potentially, potentially a seven iron could go shorter than even an eight iron.

00:21:03.086 --> 00:21:03.566
So.

00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:16.151
Generally speaking, again, the the, as you go from C to D or you get more stuff between the face of the ball, that launch is gonna come down, the spin's gonna come down, the ball speed's gonna count, which means that you need more launch.

00:21:16.540 --> 00:21:28.391
You need higher launch angles to get this thing to actually carry far enough, which means that you need to also be, again, when you're reading the lie, when you're figuring out how slow this thing's gonna come out, there's that law of diminishing returns.

00:21:28.750 --> 00:21:33.611
What's the, what's the least amount of loft that I can play and still retain that?

00:21:33.941 --> 00:21:35.201
That nice launch angle.

00:21:35.560 --> 00:21:39.611
Um, a lot of times it's gonna be a nine iron, it's gonna be an eight, it's gonna be something like that.

00:21:40.030 --> 00:21:41.230
Some, you know, seven.

00:21:41.621 --> 00:21:48.730
Once you get into six five and it gets a little bit dicey, you better be getting pretty lucky, honestly, with the lie.

00:21:49.201 --> 00:21:51.855
For those two to actually go further for a level one golf.

00:21:52.166 --> 00:22:04.477
Yeah, and I think that, one of the mistakes I see with that level one, probably level two, maybe even level three golfer, nah, probably not level three golfer, They know that it's hard, it's hard to hit outta this.

00:22:04.477 --> 00:22:08.307
So, okay, so, I'm one 50 out and that's normally my seven iron.

00:22:08.746 --> 00:22:09.165
Mm-hmm.

00:22:09.207 --> 00:22:11.336
should hit six or five iron here?

00:22:11.336 --> 00:22:18.146
Because the ball comes out, you know, slower sometimes the answer's absolutely not right?

00:22:18.385 --> 00:22:18.806
Mm-hmm.

00:22:19.017 --> 00:22:20.696
it might not come out at all, right?

00:22:20.696 --> 00:22:21.297
Like it might, and

00:22:21.326 --> 00:22:21.746
Mm-hmm.

00:22:21.896 --> 00:22:25.916
it does, it might fly so low to your point that it's never gonna carry to get there.

00:22:26.286 --> 00:22:26.506
Mm.

00:22:26.666 --> 00:22:26.997
Um.

00:22:28.211 --> 00:22:33.971
So you're almost better, you know, taking more loft and just slashing at it in a way and see if you can get it to

00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:34.300
Yeah,

00:22:34.422 --> 00:22:34.541
and

00:22:34.691 --> 00:22:35.260
exactly.

00:22:35.622 --> 00:22:40.991
Um, don't do a t Was that, was that Firestone, that tiger hit that ridiculous pitching wedge.

00:22:41.261 --> 00:22:47.172
This is probably before you were old enough to remember golf, but tiger hit, I, should link this in the show.

00:22:47.172 --> 00:22:48.041
Maybe I'll try to find it.

00:22:48.041 --> 00:22:49.122
Link it in the show notes.

00:22:49.332 --> 00:22:54.041
Tiger hit a pitching wedge from like 185 yards at like Firestone or one of these places from

00:22:54.101 --> 00:22:55.510
Nice.

00:22:55.570 --> 00:22:56.891
From a B lie, probably.

00:22:57.001 --> 00:22:57.807
no, no, no, no.

00:22:58.017 --> 00:22:59.757
This thing was so far down.

00:23:00.027 --> 00:23:00.446
He

00:23:00.611 --> 00:23:01.175
Oh, was it?

00:23:01.616 --> 00:23:02.817
hard at this thing.

00:23:03.027 --> 00:23:05.757
And the announcer, it was either, I think it was David Faherty.

00:23:05.757 --> 00:23:09.356
It was just like, there's no chance, like any human can hit that shot.

00:23:09.356 --> 00:23:09.896
And he flew it

00:23:09.915 --> 00:23:10.336
Mm-hmm.

00:23:10.376 --> 00:23:12.297
like five feet and made a birdie, put like,

00:23:12.516 --> 00:23:13.296
That's insane.

00:23:13.296 --> 00:23:13.496
Yeah.

00:23:13.557 --> 00:23:14.457
with a pitching wedge.

00:23:14.547 --> 00:23:17.997
Um, so you almost have to just like slash it out, right?

00:23:17.997 --> 00:23:18.086
And

00:23:18.306 --> 00:23:18.726
Mm-hmm.

00:23:19.257 --> 00:23:24.836
Take the medicine, like whether it's one 50 and you should be able to hit it that far, a hundred yards.

00:23:24.971 --> 00:23:25.240
Yep.

00:23:25.376 --> 00:23:28.646
there's times you've gotta read as that ball is going lower in the rough.

00:23:28.646 --> 00:23:29.186
To your point,

00:23:29.286 --> 00:23:29.705
Mm-hmm.

00:23:29.787 --> 00:23:36.906
B2C to D, you've gotta be adding in my opinion, adding loft and moving it back in your stance to

00:23:37.040 --> 00:23:37.520
Yep.

00:23:37.820 --> 00:23:38.270
Sure.

00:23:38.467 --> 00:23:40.777
did, to hit down and chop it outta there.

00:23:41.121 --> 00:23:41.510
Sure.

00:23:41.676 --> 00:23:44.856
it's the worse the lie is the more of a chop out it's gonna be.

00:23:44.916 --> 00:23:45.487
That's just the

00:23:45.530 --> 00:23:45.830
Mm-hmm.

00:23:45.997 --> 00:23:46.416
That's just

00:23:46.431 --> 00:23:46.881
I agree.

00:23:47.317 --> 00:23:47.856
So.

00:23:49.372 --> 00:24:04.201
You know, the, other consideration that I see, and this is something that I, I noticed over time is there was this notion that as the ball was getting into that B lie and C lie, the ball's sitting down a little bit more in the rough, but I could still hit it.

00:24:05.011 --> 00:24:08.521
That I should just take a hybrid'cause hybrids make it come out better.

00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:11.655
Yes, I know exactly where you're going here.

00:24:11.731 --> 00:24:12.991
Um, and.

00:24:14.115 --> 00:24:14.576
and I agree.

00:24:15.227 --> 00:24:22.846
Yeah, so one of, one of the, one of the things that is interesting about hybrid design is that the face is really shallow, right?

00:24:22.846 --> 00:24:33.047
So when you're trying to control arc height, which is a struggle outta the rough, right, with the ball sitting in there, um, it's really easy to hit it right off the top of your hybrid and it,

00:24:33.181 --> 00:24:33.840
Yes.

00:24:34.096 --> 00:24:35.926
straight up in the air, and it goes nowhere.

00:24:35.987 --> 00:24:37.037
Like it goes nowhere.

00:24:37.037 --> 00:24:39.561
And you get a big mark on the top of your hybrid like it's.

00:24:39.990 --> 00:24:40.891
Yeah, it's a fun time.

00:24:40.936 --> 00:24:44.477
The, the iron face is a lot deeper, right?

00:24:44.477 --> 00:24:50.237
So you have more vertical component to an iron face to be able to catch that ball and hit it out.

00:24:50.596 --> 00:24:56.207
So I would say I would try to revert to 7, 8, 9, uh, rather than a

00:24:56.340 --> 00:24:56.820
Mm-hmm.

00:24:57.497 --> 00:24:59.057
some people hit hybrid's really great outta there.

00:24:59.057 --> 00:24:59.656
That's fine.

00:24:59.656 --> 00:25:09.467
But as you're coming in with that shallower attack angle,'cause you're hitting a longer club, A, you're more likely to just hit more grass before the ball.

00:25:09.586 --> 00:25:09.977
And then

00:25:10.030 --> 00:25:10.441
Yeah.

00:25:10.487 --> 00:25:13.096
shallower face, I think it's easier to hit it on the top of the club.

00:25:13.217 --> 00:25:13.787
And then you

00:25:13.846 --> 00:25:14.145
Yeah.

00:25:14.146 --> 00:25:18.037
ver what's called vertical gear effect, where it adds a bunch of loft and impact.

00:25:18.037 --> 00:25:19.656
It just doesn't go anywhere, right?

00:25:20.076 --> 00:25:20.556
Mm-hmm.

00:25:21.067 --> 00:25:27.846
my opinion is, you just want to, you know, play a club outta there that you, that you know you can get outta there.

00:25:27.906 --> 00:25:28.176
Right?

00:25:28.566 --> 00:25:28.895
Yeah.

00:25:28.896 --> 00:25:31.086
level one consideration is like.

00:25:32.001 --> 00:25:32.991
Practice it.

00:25:33.172 --> 00:25:36.832
Try to figure out if you can chop down on it with a, with a, you know.

00:25:37.747 --> 00:25:41.317
With a shorter club and get it and play more directly to the fairway.

00:25:41.946 --> 00:25:55.866
As you become level two player, you are probably reading the lie a little bit better and matching it to your skill and trying to understand if you can hit it high enough, um, and control it better and to those considerations you have with Loft as you get to be a better player.

00:25:55.866 --> 00:25:58.057
We're talking level three is like a scratch golfer.

00:25:58.451 --> 00:26:01.602
Now you're reading lies and trying to get, is this a flyer?

00:26:01.662 --> 00:26:02.711
Is this a, is it

00:26:02.840 --> 00:26:03.201
Yeah.

00:26:03.221 --> 00:26:04.182
Is this into grain?

00:26:04.182 --> 00:26:05.051
Is this down grain?

00:26:05.102 --> 00:26:05.521
Mm-hmm.

00:26:05.758 --> 00:26:12.837
grass different than fescue grass, different than blue grass, you know, different than cocoa grass or whatever.

00:26:13.027 --> 00:26:13.446
Yeah.

00:26:13.678 --> 00:26:16.647
those different considerations as you're trying to predict.

00:26:17.587 --> 00:26:21.218
The ball coming out of it, but the truth is you can't really predict it very well.

00:26:21.218 --> 00:26:21.488
Right.

00:26:21.488 --> 00:26:29.137
So you're just making the best educated guess and playing on, so your best golfers, you know, those scratch golfers and better.

00:26:29.917 --> 00:26:34.748
Is there any unique considerations you're giving them, Robbie, kind of outside of what you've

00:26:34.821 --> 00:26:35.451
Yes.

00:26:36.711 --> 00:26:37.011
Yeah.

00:26:37.011 --> 00:26:42.321
So this is where level two and level three into level four, you need to understand how your dispersion gets bigger.

00:26:43.146 --> 00:26:59.497
Outta the rough and how much, um, so again, for, for my golfers who are targeting using fingers, uh, you're gonna wanna figure out like, hey, for, for me in these particular shots, how much am I widening out that that zone, right?

00:26:59.497 --> 00:27:01.626
Because then that's gonna change your target, right?

00:27:01.626 --> 00:27:05.376
Because our, our number one deal here is like, hey, nothing within this zone.

00:27:06.007 --> 00:27:06.696
And again, it's not.

00:27:07.146 --> 00:27:08.707
0% of our shots, right?

00:27:08.707 --> 00:27:23.017
But understand like, hey, this is, you know, in the, in the neighborhood of, you know, 75, 80 ish percent of shots are gonna be in this zone, assuming I'm swinging and playing freely.

00:27:24.247 --> 00:27:28.116
So for this lie, how big does that need to be?

00:27:28.416 --> 00:27:36.487
And then where do I need to put this so that zero of my, you know, inside my dispersion are touching a penalty area.

00:27:37.521 --> 00:27:39.382
Um, would be number one.

00:27:39.531 --> 00:27:42.321
And then getting as much of that on the green as I can, number two.

00:27:42.321 --> 00:27:47.092
And then if I have margin on either side, then I can slide it closer to the flag number three.

00:27:47.832 --> 00:27:49.571
So it's just like wind, it's like headwind.

00:27:49.662 --> 00:27:51.102
It's gonna increase your dispersion.

00:27:51.592 --> 00:27:52.461
Just like rough.

00:27:52.862 --> 00:27:55.261
It's just another consideration that you need to make in your targeting.

00:27:55.261 --> 00:27:58.386
You're just gonna be a little more conservative in your target outta the rough in general.

00:27:59.202 --> 00:28:02.127
Again, I would say right to left dispersion and short to long dispersion.

00:28:02.458 --> 00:28:05.468
Right, it's really unpredictable on the carry

00:28:05.771 --> 00:28:06.192
For sure.

00:28:06.607 --> 00:28:07.087
I guess if

00:28:07.541 --> 00:28:08.231
And then as a,

00:28:08.258 --> 00:28:08.587
ahead.

00:28:09.612 --> 00:28:19.946
and then as a level three golfer, especially if you're, if you're in the rough, but you, let's say have less than a six iron in or, or, so, you're gonna be also reading, okay, based off this lie.

00:28:21.057 --> 00:28:23.967
When the ball hits the green, how is it gonna respond off of that?

00:28:24.146 --> 00:28:24.446
Right.

00:28:24.446 --> 00:28:29.652
And that's gonna get baked into your carry number,, that you're, that you're intending to, to hit.

00:28:29.942 --> 00:28:34.053
So defining what a flyer lie is, you

00:28:34.231 --> 00:28:34.652
Mm-hmm.

00:28:34.863 --> 00:28:38.673
people listening to this probably don't know what a flyer lie is, although they probably have had one.

00:28:39.123 --> 00:28:40.143
It just means that.

00:28:40.617 --> 00:28:49.397
Grass gets between the club and the face you make to pretty good contact with it., But, the grass gets between the club and the face and the ball basically doesn't spin as much.

00:28:49.397 --> 00:28:49.758
So

00:28:50.027 --> 00:28:50.356
Mm-hmm.

00:28:50.597 --> 00:28:58.698
spin, it just rockets off the club face and carry, it'll carry a long way typically, and it will also roll a long way when.

00:28:58.952 --> 00:29:02.553
When it does finally hit planet Earth, which sometimes can be way too long.

00:29:02.553 --> 00:29:06.153
So trying to predict a flyer lie is really difficult, I think.

00:29:06.247 --> 00:29:06.666
Mm-hmm.

00:29:06.702 --> 00:29:09.163
'Cause sometimes it comes out soft, sometimes it comes out

00:29:09.342 --> 00:29:09.761
For sure.

00:29:10.063 --> 00:29:13.123
Then if you have wind to consider, that's a really big consideration.

00:29:13.393 --> 00:29:26.722
But it kind of goes back to the Iron Loft fitting, conversation too, because I'm fitting, you just made this point a little while ago, but they put it in the context of Flyer lies You know, non flyer lies.

00:29:26.752 --> 00:29:34.133
If I'm getting a seven iron, that I'm just someone who launches the ball low and I tend to land it at 38 degrees land angle, right?

00:29:34.133 --> 00:29:40.883
With 4,000 or 4,200 spin on a seven iron when I go in the rough and that spin goes down.

00:29:41.153 --> 00:29:45.053
I mean, that is a impossible ball to control, right?

00:29:45.396 --> 00:29:45.967
A hundred percent.

00:29:45.982 --> 00:29:51.682
fitting them on these optimal launch conditions from a mat or from a fairway line.

00:29:51.742 --> 00:29:52.163
Right?

00:29:52.853 --> 00:29:53.272
But you

00:29:53.436 --> 00:29:53.767
Yeah.

00:29:53.767 --> 00:29:54.336
Yeah, exactly.

00:29:55.028 --> 00:30:05.528
Realize when you put that in the context of playing the golf course, there is some struggles out there when you're talking about the spin going down even more from an optimal spin.

00:30:06.218 --> 00:30:06.728
So

00:30:06.846 --> 00:30:07.176
Yep.

00:30:07.357 --> 00:30:12.627
puts it another one of those revolutionary things with this, with the loft fitting.

00:30:12.778 --> 00:30:17.458
And again, I could always, so someone's listening to this being like, Eric, you could always change the loss.

00:30:17.488 --> 00:30:19.198
That is a hundred percent true.

00:30:19.647 --> 00:30:20.917
But, it was always a guess.

00:30:21.667 --> 00:30:25.298
I would always have to guess like, oh, is this gonna help the person or

00:30:25.311 --> 00:30:27.592
Ah, it's probably like a degree weaker or two degrees.

00:30:27.771 --> 00:30:30.051
Now you, you're like, yes, you are.

00:30:30.321 --> 00:30:30.741
Two degree.

00:30:30.741 --> 00:30:31.071
Yeah.

00:30:31.178 --> 00:30:31.627
man.

00:30:32.107 --> 00:30:33.038
I know it's working

00:30:33.082 --> 00:30:33.471
for sure.

00:30:33.788 --> 00:30:41.077
So I think that that getting your irons fit properly is such a, it's such a big deal

00:30:41.676 --> 00:30:42.217
Mm-hmm.

00:30:42.337 --> 00:30:47.637
about it from good condition, but man, when it gets to be, from the, from not great conditions.

00:30:48.117 --> 00:30:53.258
It's really, really helpful to have irons that really,, fit you well and can really work from all condition.

00:30:56.738 --> 00:31:00.337
So level th level three consideration there.

00:31:01.087 --> 00:31:03.367
I think reading Elia is huge, to your point, like

00:31:03.561 --> 00:31:03.922
Yeah,

00:31:03.998 --> 00:31:05.107
dispersion because

00:31:05.241 --> 00:31:06.922
that's most of it, to be honest.

00:31:06.932 --> 00:31:15.422
Obviously there's, there's always skill stuff present, but it's not their ability to produce a skill, right?

00:31:15.422 --> 00:31:17.521
They're producing the skill within reason.

00:31:18.317 --> 00:31:22.457
But it's their, what they intended wasn't matching what was needed.

00:31:22.997 --> 00:31:23.356
Right.

00:31:23.356 --> 00:31:24.826
So it's, yeah.

00:31:24.856 --> 00:31:28.997
For, again, for level three and level four golfers, I almost always start with prediction, right?

00:31:28.997 --> 00:31:38.007
Because it's, most of the time,, they think it's their swing or they think it's their skill, and in reality it's just their, their prediction of, of what they're trying to do.

00:31:39.538 --> 00:31:40.048
Awesome.

00:31:40.137 --> 00:31:43.827
So I think that was a pretty comprehensive discussion of,

00:31:43.856 --> 00:31:44.576
Yeah, agree.

00:31:44.787 --> 00:31:45.567
I think we hit on it.

00:31:45.867 --> 00:31:48.688
about that mainly from a, from a full swing discussion.

00:31:48.688 --> 00:31:51.238
We didn't get into it as much on the short game, and I think that's okay.

00:31:51.926 --> 00:31:55.586
But it's pretty, yeah, no, it's, it's just, it's, the rules are the same.

00:31:55.646 --> 00:31:57.626
A, B, C, D is changing the launch.

00:31:57.626 --> 00:31:58.826
It's changing the ball speed.

00:31:58.826 --> 00:31:59.817
It's changing the spin.

00:32:00.356 --> 00:32:08.507
Um, and then it's your ability to read what's gonna happen, and create a choice of loft speed.

00:32:08.596 --> 00:32:08.836
Right.

00:32:08.836 --> 00:32:11.176
And match your skill Right to that.

00:32:12.083 --> 00:32:17.522
I think we covered,, in some of our short game episodes, playing from the rough around the green, so

00:32:17.636 --> 00:32:18.057
Mm-hmm.

00:32:18.063 --> 00:32:22.022
probably go back and check out some of those episodes or review some of those episodes.

00:32:22.022 --> 00:32:22.383
But,

00:32:22.902 --> 00:32:23.172
Yeah.

00:32:23.321 --> 00:32:26.142
Should probably, hopefully hear a lot of the same stuff, but it's goods.

00:32:26.343 --> 00:32:27.843
we've changed our mind, but I don't think so.

00:32:30.363 --> 00:32:32.522
we have to trust the science, Robbie, so we're trusting the

00:32:32.832 --> 00:32:33.251
Yeah.

00:32:33.821 --> 00:32:36.102
No, we're, we're, we're just stuck in our ways, man.

00:32:36.222 --> 00:32:37.153
stuck in our ways.

00:32:37.903 --> 00:32:41.053
So yeah, thank you for that discussion.

00:32:41.053 --> 00:32:41.593
I thought that was good.

00:32:41.593 --> 00:32:41.952
So,

00:32:42.821 --> 00:32:43.061
Yeah.

00:32:43.061 --> 00:32:43.392
Agreed.

00:32:43.423 --> 00:32:46.512
I'll check in with my friend, see, see if she learned something from that.

00:32:47.143 --> 00:32:50.323
So lessons from the lesson tee.

00:32:50.323 --> 00:32:51.042
I think this is kind

00:32:51.162 --> 00:32:51.551
Yeah.

00:32:51.582 --> 00:32:52.362
What you've been seeing,

00:32:52.423 --> 00:32:55.462
this is kind of turned into one of my more favorite, parts of the podcast.

00:32:55.462 --> 00:32:57.383
'cause I think people can sort of,

00:32:57.412 --> 00:32:59.152
I've actually gotten some good feedback on it too.

00:32:59.272 --> 00:33:01.403
people can see themselves in these stories a bit.

00:33:02.662 --> 00:33:02.751
Yeah.

00:33:03.938 --> 00:33:07.627
Talking about golf performance from just a, the standpoint of a textbook.

00:33:07.627 --> 00:33:14.367
Like if you do this, then all these if then discussions, like if your ball's in a CY then play, like that's, you know, but

00:33:14.487 --> 00:33:14.707
Hm.

00:33:14.788 --> 00:33:15.387
Like that's

00:33:15.461 --> 00:33:17.592
Mm-hmm.

00:33:17.667 --> 00:33:22.678
But then like understanding an individual person and their

00:33:23.142 --> 00:33:23.711
Mm-hmm.

00:33:23.788 --> 00:33:27.833
needs and what their hopes and goals are, and then how we've.

00:33:28.657 --> 00:33:31.928
Help those people develop or help them learn how to develop.

00:33:32.528 --> 00:33:34.778
I think people can see themselves in those stories.

00:33:34.807 --> 00:33:38.978
And so, um, you said you had, you had one you wanted to discuss today, which I

00:33:39.156 --> 00:33:40.297
Yeah, yeah,

00:33:40.567 --> 00:33:40.998
to hear about it.

00:33:41.646 --> 00:33:42.217
no.

00:33:42.217 --> 00:33:43.926
It's funny when you start teaching, you have.

00:33:44.977 --> 00:33:50.906
Just random weeks where you see like similar stuff,, you know, multiple days of that week.

00:33:50.936 --> 00:33:53.396
And this week was really funny.

00:33:53.396 --> 00:34:00.336
So, almost every lesson that, that I teach, I don't, I don't, shy away from, from advertising it.

00:34:00.787 --> 00:34:04.676
You're gonna get, an understanding of, of your rhythm, right?

00:34:04.676 --> 00:34:06.267
What does swinging freely mean to you?

00:34:07.176 --> 00:34:09.157
You're gonna get an understanding of training skill.

00:34:10.117 --> 00:34:17.407
I mean, you're gonna get an understanding of strategy, which is your, decision making and your shot process, what is relevant to you to get better, right?

00:34:17.407 --> 00:34:19.086
So that's my, that's what we do.

00:34:19.086 --> 00:34:20.887
That's what we talk about on a podcast every day.

00:34:21.476 --> 00:34:36.836
Throughout the week when I've been, when I was doing skill training, and I don't know if it was how I was presenting it or if it was just the random look of the draw, I had three separate people.

00:34:37.211 --> 00:34:46.121
In the same week completely confuse face to path in horizontal impact, spot on the face, heel to toe.

00:34:47.021 --> 00:34:58.286
So I remember sending you this video or this text, I said, Hey, don't let me forget., This is, this is what I wanted to talk about on the podcast and.

00:35:00.206 --> 00:35:06.387
For this golfer, every single time we would try to do heel or toe strikes.

00:35:06.387 --> 00:35:19.016
So again, I was very, I was trying my best to be very clear that, hey, all we're changing here is the location of your low point, basically the bottom of your swing in space.

00:35:19.556 --> 00:35:24.387
All right, for a toe strike, the bottom of the swing is closer to you, closer to your feet.

00:35:25.556 --> 00:35:26.396
For a heel strike.

00:35:26.396 --> 00:35:27.717
The bottom of the swing is.

00:35:28.121 --> 00:35:29.981
Further forward away from your feet.

00:35:31.362 --> 00:35:42.041
And every single time when he would try to give it a heel strike, he would open the face and a toe strike, he would close the face.

00:35:43.481 --> 00:35:45.581
And I thought, huh, that's pretty interesting.

00:35:45.641 --> 00:35:51.822
And so I, I obviously brought to his attention and then we said, Hey, you're not changing the face.

00:35:51.822 --> 00:35:52.391
You're just changing.

00:35:52.391 --> 00:35:54.791
And then we went on about it and.

00:35:55.706 --> 00:35:59.936
It happened again, like literally, like within the week, same thing.

00:36:00.556 --> 00:36:04.666
No, we're not changing face, we're just, and then it, it happened again.

00:36:04.666 --> 00:36:07.447
And,, they, they did not all do the same thing.

00:36:07.447 --> 00:36:14.967
So,, I had, I had one who was closing the face more for heel strikes and, and opening the face more for toe strikes.

00:36:15.056 --> 00:36:18.351
So it wasn't that, but I think.

00:36:19.137 --> 00:36:28.766
Oftentimes golfers, when they hit it right or left, they might think that, oh, it was just because I hit it on the heel or the toe, right?

00:36:29.126 --> 00:36:33.027
In reality, like, no, it's just where the face was pointed and vice versa, right?

00:36:33.027 --> 00:36:39.626
If they, they feel a heel strike or a toe strike, they're perceiving it as the face being open or closed.

00:36:40.077 --> 00:36:41.996
Like, no, it was just where the swing was in space.

00:36:41.996 --> 00:36:44.967
So it was a very, very bizarre week.

00:36:45.297 --> 00:36:47.456
But just so everyone knows,.

00:36:47.996 --> 00:36:50.306
The impact spot on the face.

00:36:50.336 --> 00:37:00.806
So where the ball is touching on the face is completely different, separate than where the face is pointed when it hits the ball.

00:37:00.867 --> 00:37:05.666
And I know like if you've listened to this podcast before, this should be very much review for you.

00:37:05.666 --> 00:37:15.717
This is caption, you know, but do not assume, this is not like captain obvious stuff from a, like a field perspective as you're swinging a golf club and you're experiencing impacts perspective.

00:37:16.496 --> 00:37:19.586
Especially if you're a little bit more limited in your experience.

00:37:19.827 --> 00:37:21.507
This is not captain obvious stuff.

00:37:21.536 --> 00:37:28.106
Like people need to, to have that awareness of like, hey, there is a difference in where the ball hits on the face.

00:37:28.106 --> 00:37:37.197
Or there can be a difference in where the ball is hitting on the face versus where the ball's going because of where the face is pointed at impact.

00:37:37.527 --> 00:37:39.317
So,, it was very interesting.

00:37:39.317 --> 00:37:45.317
I, I think it was just a good reminder that we needed to take our time with our students and we need to make sure that.

00:37:45.871 --> 00:37:51.692
Their perceptions and their concepts of what we are talking about in term, in terms of skill is very, very, very clear.

00:37:51.692 --> 00:37:57.601
Because I do it all day and I sometimes get in the habit of just like skimming and kind of running through it.

00:37:58.101 --> 00:38:07.402
And that week really taught me to just slow down, take a, take a deep breath, and just, you know, we don't have to get through every single skill in one lesson, essentially.

00:38:07.402 --> 00:38:09.157
I've, I've gotten to the point now to where it's like.

00:38:10.086 --> 00:38:10.416
All right.

00:38:10.416 --> 00:38:21.036
If this person just really needs a better understanding of this one particular aspect of arc location, whether it be a height or arc location forward back, then we just don't even get past that.

00:38:21.036 --> 00:38:21.786
We just do that.

00:38:21.786 --> 00:38:23.336
Right., And it's been good.

00:38:23.456 --> 00:38:25.737
So that, that was my, that was my main lesson.

00:38:26.293 --> 00:38:39.972
I think it's, it's good to point out that not every person that plays golf, and I think there's plenty of people probably listening to this, and I would put myself in this as a golfer for a long time when I was learning to play this game, is that I really had no idea what made the ball go where it went.

00:38:40.047 --> 00:38:45.538
I had no idea, you know, I would swing and hope it would go straight and I would try to swing better and I would try to, you

00:38:45.762 --> 00:38:46.121
Yeah.

00:38:46.438 --> 00:38:54.717
this, I'm talking about 30 years ago when there was no track man, and there was no, you know, there was no understanding from a science perspective, and I was trying to learn golf.

00:38:54.717 --> 00:38:56.427
Like I, I didn't really know.

00:38:57.327 --> 00:39:02.998
is what, this is what you, when you're going through development, it's about acquiring skill.

00:39:03.463 --> 00:39:09.853
Okay, so I just watched, you know, I wouldn't say a lot of the US open tennis.

00:39:09.902 --> 00:39:15.902
I watched some of it I just can't, I play a little bit of racket sports.

00:39:15.902 --> 00:39:17.193
My daughter plays tennis.

00:39:17.313 --> 00:39:18.512
We play some pickleball.

00:39:18.663 --> 00:39:19.592
I like tennis.

00:39:20.492 --> 00:39:25.202
amount of skill that those tennis players have is mindboggling.

00:39:25.262 --> 00:39:25.532
It's

00:39:25.666 --> 00:39:26.237
It is,

00:39:26.762 --> 00:39:27.182
right?

00:39:29.237 --> 00:39:30.288
It's easy to see.

00:39:30.288 --> 00:39:31.608
I think it plays out in tennis.

00:39:31.608 --> 00:39:33.858
You can see that skill, the way they control the

00:39:34.021 --> 00:39:34.242
uh.

00:39:34.248 --> 00:39:34.637
right?

00:39:35.538 --> 00:39:36.858
in golf is about control, right?

00:39:36.858 --> 00:39:37.847
So what are you controlling?

00:39:37.847 --> 00:39:40.367
You're controlling where the ball's sitting on the face, right?

00:39:40.697 --> 00:39:42.498
You're controlling where the face is pointed.

00:39:42.708 --> 00:39:44.057
But those are separate, right?

00:39:44.057 --> 00:39:44.688
To your point.

00:39:44.688 --> 00:39:47.628
And, and they both have the influence on where the ball goes.

00:39:47.688 --> 00:39:51.358
And so I think that, trying to sort out in your mind as a golfer.

00:39:52.018 --> 00:39:59.367
Why is my ball going where it's going and why is it not going where, where I hope it to go or why am I not controlling it very well?

00:39:59.818 --> 00:40:05.068
And that's to your point about it, you know, do I have, do I have the right perception of what's going on?

00:40:05.427 --> 00:40:07.858
And this is where coaching comes in because sometimes we

00:40:07.916 --> 00:40:08.246
Yeah.

00:40:08.307 --> 00:40:08.697
know.

00:40:09.088 --> 00:40:11.157
And sometimes I don't know about my own swing.

00:40:11.157 --> 00:40:13.347
I've gotta kind of sort through it a little bit.

00:40:13.648 --> 00:40:14.277
Oh my gosh.

00:40:14.277 --> 00:40:20.217
Like, and this is every week I get golfers who are perceiving, they're hitting the heel and they're actually hitting the toe.

00:40:20.958 --> 00:40:28.307
I have golfers who are perceiving that the ball's going left because their hips and reality, it's the face being closed.

00:40:28.307 --> 00:40:28.458
Right.

00:40:28.547 --> 00:40:31.697
So like this is a, this is an every, every week thing.

00:40:31.697 --> 00:40:32.387
Yeah, for sure.

00:40:32.403 --> 00:40:37.204
we wanna correlate the proper things to the proper outcomes.

00:40:37.384 --> 00:40:44.418
And so yeah, to your point, Your hips are not causing the ball to go right or left, you know, the club face is causing the ball to go right or left.

00:40:44.509 --> 00:40:46.969
And so gotta sort that through.

00:40:47.268 --> 00:40:48.679
So, yeah, I think that's really good.

00:40:48.679 --> 00:40:54.199
I mean, I, I, uh, I didn't come into this one tonight with a specific story from the recent time.

00:40:54.528 --> 00:40:57.168
It's just been, it's been a fun season of teaching.

00:40:57.168 --> 00:40:59.509
I've taught probably more this year than ever'cause I've played.

00:40:59.739 --> 00:41:00.309
Played less

00:41:00.318 --> 00:41:00.617
Yeah.

00:41:00.668 --> 00:41:03.699
and I'm just kind of cranking him out these days.

00:41:03.699 --> 00:41:04.088
And,

00:41:04.208 --> 00:41:04.628
Mm-hmm.

00:41:04.628 --> 00:41:06.099
it's been, it's been fun.

00:41:06.099 --> 00:41:08.378
It's been fun seeing some newer golfers really

00:41:09.577 --> 00:41:09.867
Yeah.

00:41:09.909 --> 00:41:12.068
to play an acquiring skill, right.

00:41:12.068 --> 00:41:14.798
And then practicing in a way where they can adjust on their own.

00:41:15.228 --> 00:41:18.088
I had a, I had a listener who I worked with, on his game.

00:41:18.088 --> 00:41:22.474
He's a member, but he, he likes to listen to the show and he was telling me today, he's like.

00:41:23.934 --> 00:41:30.833
I'm able to understand on the course when things go sideways, how to change it because you've helped me learn what the

00:41:30.847 --> 00:41:31.507
Yes.

00:41:31.554 --> 00:41:34.313
and he's a 16 handicap, you know, he is like, I don't have.

00:41:34.364 --> 00:41:40.454
A hundred percent control of what I'm doing all the time, but I can make adjustments when I see issues mid round.

00:41:41.233 --> 00:41:49.233
so I think from a teaching perspective, currently, I'm trying to really instill in the player, almost teaching from skill backwards and, and then trying to

00:41:49.257 --> 00:41:49.677
Mm-hmm.

00:41:50.554 --> 00:41:52.503
have the swing react to how they want

00:41:53.527 --> 00:41:53.947
Mm-hmm.

00:41:54.304 --> 00:41:54.634
right?

00:41:54.634 --> 00:41:55.173
So.

00:41:55.773 --> 00:41:57.632
That's, that's, yes, absolutely.

00:41:57.632 --> 00:42:00.422
Like when it comes to geometry, right?

00:42:00.422 --> 00:42:04.663
So three aspects of the swing, energy, time, geometry, energy.

00:42:04.722 --> 00:42:09.583
Really just an amount of like, and how amount of momentum, amount of work.

00:42:10.813 --> 00:42:16.572
And it also comprises of like how you're doing it, how you're putting the energy in, right?

00:42:17.152 --> 00:42:19.313
Time really.

00:42:19.867 --> 00:42:23.978
The, the, the amount of time and the pattern of time, right.

00:42:23.978 --> 00:42:24.967
Which we call rhythm.

00:42:25.987 --> 00:42:27.697
And then there's geometry, right?

00:42:27.697 --> 00:42:29.858
Which is the positions, right?

00:42:29.858 --> 00:42:32.797
The, the locations in space where the club is swinging through.

00:42:33.907 --> 00:42:43.117
I currently believe that the shot creates the geometry., Whatever shot you're trying to hit, right?

00:42:43.268 --> 00:42:46.268
The geometry is subordinate to that shot.

00:42:47.088 --> 00:42:53.137
What does not change, is the, relative to the shot, how you're putting energy into it, right?

00:42:53.137 --> 00:43:00.057
And the pattern of that energy as well as the, the time aspects, are gonna, again, the general rhythms gonna stay really, really consistent.

00:43:00.057 --> 00:43:05.378
Even though the amount of energy might change, the time of the swing might change a little bit, but the rhythm.

00:43:05.827 --> 00:43:09.327
Of the swing is gonna be, extremely consistent, ideally.

00:43:09.429 --> 00:43:16.728
So I've, I've been working with a level three player, and this is, goes right to the point you just made, who's trying to be a level four player.

00:43:16.728 --> 00:43:23.378
So he's working towards trying to play as a tour player He's coming off injury.

00:43:24.099 --> 00:43:26.559
He came to see me and I hadn't ever worked with him.

00:43:26.559 --> 00:43:35.128
And I'm watching, watching his control the ball first and trying to make a judgment upon that to help him the best I can and realizing he's not controlling the ball.

00:43:35.159 --> 00:43:36.298
He knows this by the way.

00:43:36.298 --> 00:43:38.579
He knows he's not controlled the ball, he the way he wants to.

00:43:39.373 --> 00:43:45.224
not good enough to be a tour player and then in the moment, and so he needs some change to his swing.

00:43:45.284 --> 00:43:46.574
This is a swing change, right?

00:43:46.574 --> 00:43:47.594
It wasn't a skill chain.

00:43:47.594 --> 00:43:56.143
This was a swing change what he was doing from the geometry wasn't gonna produce the, the dispersion pattern, the control that he needed.

00:43:56.954 --> 00:44:00.704
so I'm looking at different ways, right?

00:44:00.704 --> 00:44:02.554
Like a little bit of Hand path.

00:44:02.914 --> 00:44:05.614
Um, what is lower bodies doing relative to his upper body?

00:44:05.614 --> 00:44:06.724
How's rotating through the swing?

00:44:06.724 --> 00:44:08.043
There's all kinds of stuff going on.

00:44:08.043 --> 00:44:12.063
And we kind of worked back and forth on stuff and I finally said, can you hit a draw for me?

00:44:12.844 --> 00:44:13.264
Okay.

00:44:13.983 --> 00:44:16.954
I turned his, I turned his focus to the

00:44:17.012 --> 00:44:17.402
Yeah.

00:44:17.494 --> 00:44:17.914
right?

00:44:18.123 --> 00:44:18.934
And all of a

00:44:19.233 --> 00:44:19.563
Yep.

00:44:19.594 --> 00:44:20.914
the hand path changed.

00:44:21.273 --> 00:44:21.813
Okay?

00:44:22.097 --> 00:44:22.338
Yep.

00:44:22.563 --> 00:44:26.463
changed, the left knee started working differently, and all of a sudden.

00:44:27.168 --> 00:44:27.619
my gosh.

00:44:27.619 --> 00:44:28.398
He said freedom.

00:44:28.458 --> 00:44:30.349
I, this is, I'm freed up.

00:44:30.378 --> 00:44:30.739
Right.

00:44:30.798 --> 00:44:31.278
He's playing

00:44:31.512 --> 00:44:31.802
Yeah,

00:44:32.628 --> 00:44:39.409
So it just, to the point you made, he, we changed his focus onto the shot and then his swing, or what you call

00:44:39.463 --> 00:44:40.728
the gm, the geometry.

00:44:40.789 --> 00:44:43.068
it just changed right.

00:44:43.128 --> 00:44:43.728
Without him

00:44:44.117 --> 00:44:44.208
Mm-hmm.

00:44:44.568 --> 00:44:45.438
too much about it.

00:44:46.159 --> 00:44:46.429
So.

00:44:47.898 --> 00:44:49.159
Absolutely can happen.

00:44:49.219 --> 00:44:51.498
But again, it's really hard to do that on your own.

00:44:51.498 --> 00:44:55.429
I mean, I think you need a little guidance on that, knowing what to do, when to do it.

00:44:56.083 --> 00:44:56.503
Mm-hmm.

00:44:57.378 --> 00:44:58.728
but yeah, great story, Rob.

00:44:58.728 --> 00:44:59.748
That was really, that was really good.

00:44:59.748 --> 00:45:04.429
And I think that's things that hopefully the listener can latch onto a little bit, learn

00:45:04.722 --> 00:45:04.943
Yep.

00:45:05.003 --> 00:45:05.222
Yep.

00:45:05.268 --> 00:45:11.628
so if you're practicing listener practice, just like Robbie always says, can you hit it on the toe?

00:45:11.688 --> 00:45:12.438
Can you hit it on the heel?

00:45:12.438 --> 00:45:14.268
Can you move the low point around a little bit?

00:45:14.688 --> 00:45:16.458
Can you practice with the face open?

00:45:16.489 --> 00:45:17.898
Can you practice with the face close?

00:45:17.898 --> 00:45:22.099
Can you hit it in the middle of the face with a face open with the face closed to change the

00:45:22.128 --> 00:45:22.637
Mm-hmm.

00:45:23.358 --> 00:45:31.009
That type of skill training will do you an amazing amount of goodwill in the long run where you can really start to

00:45:31.217 --> 00:45:31.518
Yep.

00:45:31.548 --> 00:45:34.219
make the ball do what you would like it to do.

00:45:35.088 --> 00:45:36.469
And on that front, Rob fails.

00:45:36.469 --> 00:45:42.128
Anything else,, you'd like to add on the back end of today's episode, which I'm so glad.

00:45:43.119 --> 00:45:45.963
We got recorded and I hope my computer worked so that we don't, we don't

00:45:46.807 --> 00:45:47.378
Yeah.

00:45:48.878 --> 00:45:49.538
No, no.

00:45:49.538 --> 00:45:50.677
I think, I think we hit on it.

00:45:51.518 --> 00:45:52.148
So, cool.

00:45:52.148 --> 00:45:57.998
So Robbie and I are working on a, a, a project for our substack, which is gonna be really.

00:45:58.958 --> 00:46:01.358
I think really good and all and and ongoing.

00:46:01.358 --> 00:46:06.818
So we're gonna start populating the substack with more and more, content as we go.

00:46:07.208 --> 00:46:14.708
And one big project, which I don't wanna mention yet'cause we haven't recorded the first episode, but I, I want to tease it a little bit and then we'll record an episode on it.

00:46:14.708 --> 00:46:15.579
We'll go from there.

00:46:15.878 --> 00:46:20.438
But let's just say it's gonna be a very, um, it's gonna be a case study

00:46:21.413 --> 00:46:21.833
Mm-hmm.

00:46:22.329 --> 00:46:27.458
somebody creating a long-term ongoing plan for plan.

00:46:28.239 --> 00:46:44.199
The best golf that they can, and it's gonna hit from every angle we're talking, lifestyle, nutrition, sleep, you know, recovery, exercise, equipment strategy training.

00:46:44.559 --> 00:46:52.608
Organization of life and time and family,, all these things, um, that all of us really, really need to learn from.

00:46:52.608 --> 00:46:54.938
So that'll be on the substack,, coming.

00:46:55.329 --> 00:46:57.579
So it's not out yet, but we're gonna record the first

00:46:57.612 --> 00:46:58.092
Loading.

00:46:58.148 --> 00:46:59.889
soon loading.

00:47:00.159 --> 00:47:01.239
So that'll be really, really good.

00:47:01.239 --> 00:47:02.199
So you want to check that out.

00:47:02.199 --> 00:47:03.849
We'll let you know when it's live on there.

00:47:04.128 --> 00:47:05.239
You'll see, you'll see.

00:47:05.289 --> 00:47:10.518
If you don't follow us on the Substack, you should, there's a free, there's a free, version, which we do put some stuff.

00:47:10.518 --> 00:47:13.188
I put a newsletter out or some, some videos.

00:47:13.188 --> 00:47:16.099
And then there's the behind the paywall stuff, which this case study will be.

00:47:16.099 --> 00:47:21.889
But if you just follow us on the, on the other part of it, you'll get some notifications on stuff and you can decide

00:47:21.918 --> 00:47:22.128
Yeah.

00:47:23.028 --> 00:47:24.259
support the show in that way.

00:47:24.259 --> 00:47:27.259
But we are just glad that you tune in, to be quite honest.

00:47:27.259 --> 00:47:27.378
We're

00:47:27.572 --> 00:47:27.992
Mm-hmm.

00:47:28.579 --> 00:47:29.088
So.

00:47:29.313 --> 00:47:35.403
With that being said, thank you for tuning into another edition of the Golf Intervention Podcast.

00:47:35.614 --> 00:47:39.393
We are now celebrating two years of doing this.

00:47:39.634 --> 00:47:40.474
This is episode

00:47:40.583 --> 00:47:40.873
Whew.

00:47:41.373 --> 00:47:42.333
so we're about two,

00:47:42.972 --> 00:47:43.592
That's crazy.

00:47:43.713 --> 00:47:47.974
episodes a month, which for us feels,, I think feels pretty good.

00:47:47.974 --> 00:47:52.653
I'd like to put more out, but we just, you know, life lifes and we, we run into stuff,

00:47:52.922 --> 00:47:53.253
Yep.

00:47:53.554 --> 00:47:55.233
Yeah, so thanks Rob fails.

00:47:55.233 --> 00:47:56.014
It's been, it's been

00:47:56.222 --> 00:47:56.538
Thank you.

00:47:56.614 --> 00:47:57.603
We're gonna keep going.

00:47:57.878 --> 00:47:58.297
Fun times.

00:47:58.443 --> 00:48:02.103
if you have any questions for us, you can always hit us up on social media.

00:48:02.373 --> 00:48:15.193
I've put my swing on social media recently, so if you're interested on how Eric Leighton swings the club, I've been doing some little swing stuff on there just for fun., And so I'm Eric Clayton PGA at Eric Clayton PGA on Instagram.

00:48:15.193 --> 00:48:19.103
If you wanna check it out, and see what I've got going on with my swing.

00:48:19.554 --> 00:48:20.603
I'm unafraid to share it.

00:48:21.338 --> 00:48:21.998
not too bad.

00:48:22.358 --> 00:48:24.489
It can, it can improve, but it's not too bad right now.

00:48:25.838 --> 00:48:32.748
so check that out there and you can always,, send us a DM or a message on there asking us,, some questions that you'd like to us to cover on the show.

00:48:32.748 --> 00:48:34.579
'cause we're always looking for some good ideas.

00:48:34.998 --> 00:48:36.918
So that's all I got for this evening.

00:48:36.918 --> 00:48:37.518
Rob fails.

00:48:37.518 --> 00:48:39.259
Thank you again for being on.

00:48:39.259 --> 00:48:40.818
It's always a pleasure.

00:48:41.599 --> 00:48:43.518
have a great week out there in Charlottesville.

00:48:43.518 --> 00:48:45.318
I'll actually be in Charlottesville tomorrow.

00:48:45.708 --> 00:48:47.119
No, not tomorrow, Thursday.

00:48:47.523 --> 00:48:52.054
Yeah, just, I gotta drop some stuff off to my son who is a Oahu, as they say.

00:48:53.012 --> 00:48:54.123
Well come on by.

00:48:54.213 --> 00:48:55.083
may, maybe I will.

00:48:55.083 --> 00:48:57.724
It'll be late in the evening, so you'll probably be home by then.

00:48:57.724 --> 00:48:58.054
But,

00:48:58.103 --> 00:49:00.653
Oh yeah, we got our second day of our golf school, so sorry.

00:49:01.463 --> 00:49:02.364
I don't have time for you.

00:49:03.324 --> 00:49:06.144
it's an, it's an immersive experience at golf school.

00:49:06.833 --> 00:49:06.954
It is

00:49:07.284 --> 00:49:08.664
Have fun with the golf school.

00:49:08.994 --> 00:49:09.864
Alright, boss.

00:49:09.893 --> 00:49:10.344
right.

00:49:10.344 --> 00:49:10.885
you sir.

00:49:10.914 --> 00:49:11.393
See ya.

00:49:12.594 --> 00:49:12.773
All right.

00:49:12.773 --> 00:49:13.134
Bye-bye.