EP 52: The Biggest Questions in Golf Performance Improvement — Asked and Answered. The Golf Intervention 2.0

0:00 And welcome back to the Golf Intervention Podcast. glad you're tuning in with us this evening. I'm here in Richmond, Virginia, waiting on the impending snow and ice storm, Snowmageddon, as they call it, don't they name storms? I was thinking of this on my way home. I thought they named storms, but I haven't heard a name for this Hmm. We need to, we need to come up with a name for this storm. What is it gonna be? it. can't it. No, it's gotta have a name, right? Like a, like, you know, like a legit name. they female It's like Annabelle. Annabelle What? It's like a vicious blizzard called Annabelle.

0:41 I don't know. I don't know if there's a name for this but I do know this. I'm hoping that we can get this episode out. If people are stuck at home, they can listen to it. that's what I Yeah. can do. So we are so glad to be back. with you. an episode out, um, a couple weeks ago detailing why we hadn't put some out, but promising and here we are back at it again are gonna use tonight's episode to introduce, know, what we've ta taken time to reflect on a little bit about what we've liked, about what we've done how we're gonna format it forward future episodes of the golf intervention.

1:21 I think also. Covering things that we think we know about the golf intervention, things that are sort of the, the foundational of Yeah. to convey to the listener. Um, As a, been a, it's been a great study for me kinda really go through teaching principles and things that we've done Yeah. Yeah. 25 years of teaching golf and, um. why it works and why it doesn't and what's important and what isn't. And being on the ride with my friend my friend has been really fun. So I'm ready for, I don't know, we've put episodes.

2:01 I'm ready for 50 more. Rob, we were talking do it. we were talking about Talking about how we're going to gonna, kind of next, yes. chapter, it, of the golf A hundred percent. so through kind of what we were talking about, what we're Yes. excited for. Yeah. So we have absolutely listened to our listeners, you all, and what you all have enjoyed the most about the way that we've done it in the past. So we are gonna be bringing back episode series, right? This is one of the big things that you all really enjoy, is like, okay, we're gonna do. A short game series, a long game series A, you know, like have it be a focused topic that we really delve into deeply over the course of three to four episodes.

2:48 So we're starting with basically like four episode series is gonna be the, the starting point. Some might be five, some might be three. Um, but within that, right, each episode is gonna have the following things that you, the listener have said that you enjoy. Uh, discussions on levels 1, 2, 3, and four golfers, right? So one of the big things that differentiates us is that we start with a context first, who you are as a golfer. Are you a level one golfer shooting higher than 88 on average? Are you a level two golfer shooting between 88 and 76 on average, are you a level three golfer? Basically like 76 down to like. 72 or are you a level four like Tour Pro, right?

3:31 Shooting below par on average. So based off of who you are, what are the essential elements to the main three things that we can do to improve, which we call strategy, skill, and swing, right? So each episode is gonna have a level 1, 2, 3, or four discussion on strategy or skill or swing. And then we'll fi finally for that fourth episode. Uh, we're gonna hope to bring as many guest interviews as possible, so depending on the series that we have, we're gonna hope to bring in an expert, um, pertaining to that series title. Alright. Um, aside from that, each episode is gonna have, uh, one of the most popular things that we have introduced is the lessons from our lessons, right?

4:18 This is where we tell a story about. Since the last time we recorded to now a lesson that we had, obviously keeping anonymous if they prefer, um, about something that, uh, that we think would be valuable for you all to hear as a listener, right? So lessons from our lessons was a huge hit and we're gonna keep that coming for you. And then finally, a mailbag, right? So submitting questions that either Eric and I hear on the lesson T'cause we get literally, I don't know how many questions every single day we get. But from time to time we will like text each other and say like, here, here's a question that I got from a student today, I think would be, uh, great to have on the podcast. This can also be questions that you all submit to us, right?

4:59 We have our substack, we have our email addresses, and many of y'all have our, our have our phone numbers, right? You can Instagram, right? Any way that you want to get in touch with us and ask us questions you want us to cover on the podcast. We are gonna spend that dedicated time to do that. Um, so those are really the main three main aspects of what we're calling like TGI 2.0. Again, we're gonna have lesson series. Each episode is gonna have a level 1, 2, 3, 4 discussion on strategy, skill, and swing. Uh, we're gonna have one episode that is an interview with, uh, again, lessons from our lessons and, uh, and some mail back time. So, should be a lot of fun.

5:40 We're really excited about it. This, it's gonna be like the best version of us, uh, that we've, we've been able to put out so far. So we're really excited for it, for sure. helps the listener organize their. Thoughts about how to improve and that's where, that's where we where we started there's so much stuff out there, there's so much the ethos, so to speak, about performance and it's hard to sort through it. know, we're mailbag section and I'll, I will send you, things I see on different like forums. Oh yeah.

6:21 And so I think that. You know, someone will, will ask a a forum online about like, should I play a 12 degree driver question mark? And there's so much lacking to that question, Yep. And so and so then some of the answers that come back mean, they're just wild, right? And Mm-hmm. what we're trying to do is help make a clear and way to sift through. What really matters, Yeah. the big things that I think that we do on this show is sort it out and you mentioned You mentioned a bigger thing than, and so I want to kind of highlight it, is we discuss which can improve your golf game, right?

7:05 Strategy, and swing. Now, would contend they're That they're in probably the order of most effectiveness. And least in that order. And I would say Yes. that everything you see and read on the all about the golf swing. Swing And yep. A hundred percent. it takes out skill or,'cause I just don't think people understand They don't. even people that teach golf donors. So this is one of the things that, as I mentor which I do as part of my job just at the country club Plus with with other local pros in the area or in the middle Atlantic.

7:46 It's like trying to convey that conversation like, know, you can't see Yeah. eng golf through the lens of swing. It just can't work that way. to be able to understand skill. You have to be able to understand strategy, you have to be able to communicate it. And I think on our show, we work really, really hard to do that. Now what I would say is don't misinterpret that for us saying. Swing doesn't matter. 'cause swing, absolutely 100% matters. And I teach swing and Rob teaches swing single day. Right. But Yeah. more to developing your game sort of what you call the geometry of the swing.

8:29 Mm-hmm. And although that is very important, so this is not, Not just. just, You know, swing your swing and then if you know, if you're you'll shoot better scores. Or, you know, if you, if you pick conservative targets for strategy, you'll be the best version of yourself. Like Mm-hmm. And that's what we're trying to convey with this show. That's why we put it out. I'm most proud of too, which I wanna bring up just for a second, I was looking at the year end, um, podcasting charts like worldwide charts. And we're still at the golf intervention are little lowly independent.

9:09 We're still in the top 10% of most listened to podcasts in the world out of like That's wild. And it's funny because you and you and I neither want media presence at basically not much. Yep. we don't like it. We don't use it. really. I mean, very little. Maybe that, maybe we will get into that a little bit more. But what we've Yeah, we've been talking about that. Yeah. I think that putting just really, really solid, helpful, you know, Yeah. That's. beatty information is what we're about. And That's.

9:49 all we're trying to do. you could Yeah. if you've been through the catalog. That's all promote so you, as the listener, we just thank you for tuning in and if you share this with your friends or share it on your social media, like, Hey, y'all should check this out. If you play golf, that's really helpful. But at the end of the day, we don't even do it for that. Like we don't make money off this. No, just a no. we lose money on it. Uh, we're just a No, we're definitely not in the black. just a couple of guys like To, you know, like, we're up late tonight after the kids are in bed. Doing a show because we, we think that we're helping, So, this is what we're doing. So, um, going back Going back to skill, and swing, in that invasive, most easily.

10:37 Um, importantly effective for your game. How do you How do you feel like students have absorbed that this past and what have what have you seen as far as like, is there any man, they're really getting that, or This person's yeah. Yeah, I think the, a couple aha moments, I think for, for me personally, kind as I'm, as I've been working through this is understanding that from the strategy aspect, it really is. You can think of it as more of like the conscious prediction, right? So like, what can you say out loud? What can you say in words to other people?

11:17 So like if I'm playing golf and I'm maybe doing a playing lesson with someone else. Oftentimes I'll have them think out loud, like as they're preparing for the shot. So strategy is, as we define it, is really that very conscious prediction of like, Hey, what are you trying to do and how are you trying to do it right? Which has to deal a lot with your decision tree. So like your priorities for this given shot, as well as your shot process in terms of how you're predicting the lie, the slope and the wind are gonna influence the golf ball. Right, because as you're going through that, you can make a balance sheet, if you will. Like, hey, here's the, here's the real yardage. Right? Well, I'm gonna, I'm be downhill, so it's gonna subtract and then, oh, well I'm into the wind.

12:00 I'm gonna add, so like you're playing this, this prediction game of like, how is the environment gonna influence my golf ball? The skill is more the subconscious prediction. It's not the very, things that you can. Put into words, it's the very micro elements of what is creating the ball flight, the strike that you're noticing. Right. And getting golfers. And this is something that we both are trying to get better at communicating and getting golfers to understand that it's a prediction, it's a subconscious prediction. You don't know where the club sweet, like where the sweet spot is going to be in space when it gets down around the golf ball.

12:43 Right. You're also making a subconscious prediction about where the ball is in space too. Like when the ball's in the rough and it's sitting way up or sitting way down,, and the ball's above your feet a little bit, ball's below your feet. You're making these subconscious predictions about where the ball is, where the bottom of your swing is, where the club face the path is gonna be. The speed of the club head, what, how much it's, it's gonna have when it hits the ball,. You cannot control this stuff. So you have to have strategies in place. I say strategies, but we're talking about skill here. Um, you have to have processes in place that intentionally build and improve your prediction, that subconscious prediction process, right? So understanding that I think is just so huge.

13:25 Because when I'm talking about like the aha moment, it's when golfers can say. Alright. I produced the skill that I wanted, I just made the wrong prediction, right? So I, like, I did everything I was trying to do and I just predicted it incorrectly. Right? A good example would be putting right, so you, you gave it your intended speed. You did exactly what you were trying to do from a skill standpoint. But then the golf ball rolls way too far, way too short. And that's different. That's way different than not producing your intended speed, right? So the first question is, did you produce your intended speed?

14:07 And if so, then you can take a look at the outcomes, right? And so it's such a game of awareness and start such a game of, um. I guess just a lot of like experience really to be able to, to decipher between the two. Like when, when was it really a prediction error versus when was it just an execution error? You didn't produce what you were trying to do. Right. I think, I think distinguishing between those I think is, is so huge when it comes to skill and then swing, right? Detaching the outcome and what the ball's doing from your swing and really. Kind of putting the swing in its place. Like what are the elements of the swing that are super critical?, Number one, is it hurting your body?

14:51 Is it allowing you to play number one? Number two is, is it efficient? Meaning, are you getting a lot of bang for your buck? Number three is, is it effective in the sense that it's. Allowing you to be skillful. And this is why when we do a lot of the skill training that we're gonna talk about, we're, we're basically treating this like a, uh, if you haven't listened to our podcast before, as we kind of move into this new phase, this is kind of some of the underlying information you need to know. Because as we start to do this skill training, a lot of it being differential training of like, Hey, can you explore the, the ranges of these skills? Well, what that's also doing is that's giving you a really good sense of, is your swing. In the ballpark from a geometry standpoint or not, right?

15:35 Because I can guarantee, like if you can access the heel in the toe with relatively similar ease, if you can access the bottom of the face, top of the face, if you can access face close to the path, face, open the path. And if you can produce your intended speed, it's like, okay, like your, your swing is in the ballpark. You're allowing yourself, you're, you're getting from your swing, from a geometry standpoint. What you need to get from it. If we change geometry in terms of a golf swing, it's gonna be to bias the skills differently, not to create a specific skill just to bias the skills differently. Right. And that's where Eric, you're nodding your head, right? So you could probably think of times where golfers made a swing that would bias us the skill in the way that you and I want them to.

16:20 But it didn't mean like all of the skills lined up for that particular shot. And they're like, the ball doesn't do what they want. And the golfer thinks like, oh, that was all, everything. There was terrible. Like, hold on. No. Like you made the swing that you wanted, one of these skills was a little bit outta place. Right. So there's a reason why we say there is strategy, there is skill, and then there is swing. Yeah, because while they, they do play off of one another and they do relate to each other for sure. I don't know how many swing issues are created by poor strategy, probably a ton. Right. So they do, they do play off of each other. But from a golfer standpoint, in terms of your training them, you probably need to be keeping them separate And understand that they are separate.

17:10 And I think that Swing is what you create. Skill, right? Yes. Skill mostly happens in this time interval. That's like, I mean, think about the time interval of the club hitting the ball and that's Yes. produced, right? So to Yeah. Right. You're not gonna make a swing that's anything, Mm. to do is create a vessel through which Yes. can be achieved and, and, and then in line with your goals, right? So Yeah. where you're always trying to make sure what I'm doing is in line with my goal.

17:51 One I'm is in line with my goals. Yep. we don't have to just jump to swing to, I would say, in the season. A lot of what I'm working on with golf, especially competent golfers, is skill stuff, skill Mm-hmm. A little Agreed. that, you know, sometimes But it's probably very targeted swing stuff. Like, it's probably very like, Hey. To create this different skill. Let's explore this aspect of the swing and let's just see if it gives you that nice little, short term bump in accessing the skill that you want. Right? who's an amateur new new student of mine in the fall, he came to me and the swing kind of coming off injury.

18:37 And anyway, the swing wasn't where he wanted it to be, and so therefore he wasn't producing the shots that he needed to produce in the Yeah, And so. so I'm like, okay. So he, me to look at his equipment first, kind of, that was part of the part of the story the biggest Part of the story. Part of the story is actually, can you you're making, you need to produce with the ski, you know, through the skill. And the answer And the answer was no. But it was also in, four weeks I'm trying to qualify for a mm-hmm. I got this stuff coming up. So what did we do? We mainly. basically made the best we Yeah. Right the short and then in the long with we had to go for swing change because he, to produce speed and to produce clubface, you know, clubface delivery, I should say.

19:32 Not control. I hate clubface control as a terminology, hate the word control. I'm, I'm, my goal is to never say control in a lesson if I can help it. You ain't controlling Jack. ain't no controls there, brother. But what you Yeah. can do is deliver deliver as best you can in predict. Yeah. type of Yeah. right? And that, and was something that like, he knew Mm-hmm. Very, very growth minded, very whatever. swing change, he's gained a bunch of of distance, bunch of clubface, Mm-hmm. delivery stuff that's improved. Um, can hit the ball both ways now.

20:13 So like all the stuff that you were just talking about, like so he can control, he can have, he has access to changing trajectories to more speed, to higher launch, to lower launch, to curbing the ball both ways. When basically we went and I was like, we've gotta hit a medium draw on every shot. Like, that's what we have, that's what we can predict. That's what we're playing for now. And then Yeah. gonna work on it from there. And Yeah, and the game is really like that's a visual. from the lesson kind of bigger picture, right? Like this yeah. months of like very intense work on the swing, like per week, like working at it. And when you take that on, even as a like spectacular athlete, like this gentleman is, it is work to change your swing, right?

21:02 Hmm. not that it should be never done, but it's can be difficult You know, improving skills can be a little less invasive, right? and a hundred percent. we talk about skill, you know, and Ro Robbie mentioned it, time interval. The club It's micro. the club face, It's super micro. club face hitting the ball, right? And where's the Where and vertically? We call that face, angle and, and dynamic Where is it striking on the face when it does that? Right. Where's the club moving in space, up and down, in down. and how fast is it going? Okay. Those are the things, Are those are we what you're working create the create.

21:46 the to the interval produces Those are the Those are the only happening, right? Everything else that you trajectory, ball speed, carry distance, you know, rollout distance, land angles, peak mm-hmm. loft, all of those All those things are derived that interval and impact that we just described. Foundation. and so when So the foundation of that. the Foundation. can have then you. to it, which we do with a, with a device called in our lessons. Right? you. Yep. you can work on those On.

22:27 way that mind blowingly, mind Mind blowing. I should say. Yeah. way that you're just like, oh my gosh. Now enough to tell that I've been, I taught golf for a long time when we had no access to that. Mm-hmm. pretty much everything was seen through the lens of swing, right? because we didn't have the tools, So Okay, So do have the tools, right? And so this is why, you instruction's important, but do you need to practice with track manual proof? You do not. And so that's what we try to go through in our, in our episodes, like are the ways that I what are the.

23:10 myself feedback to understand what I'm doing, how I'm doing it, right? And I think that, I think that, um, we're gonna continue we're gonna continue very good visuals in our series. about ways you can try to detail uh, which I think we've done but really be effective there. we'll use the Substack to kind of like we've done in the past, show ways to practice, and we have definitely like practice drills and stuff on the substack. I think that that's think that that just whole the whole encompassing of sort of framework. Yeah, right? I'm because. I think those teachers that that I know?

23:52 I, you know, that I with a are, are, understanding that and teaching Yeah, And it's exciting, right? yeah, it, sure. a lot of room for individual Individuality. Yes. what you might call idiosyncrasy, I call a swing building. in to out rather than out to in. Mm-hmm. I like that. Yeah. it's, unduly influencing every position of the swing. 'cause it may not be comfortable for the student, it might not make sense to the student. Yeah. so those are the things that I Are things, for the Yeah. And what we can take away.

24:35 one thing I was thinking about, like it's a lot of it is protecting the student from our own, like preferences and biases. Like,'cause everyone enjoys seeing different stuff, right? But it's like what we do is we make it so that's not the priority for every, like there's so many, I again, like this is, this podcast is not meant and designed to like rag on golf instruction because we believe in it wholeheartedly. Like you, the listener, like are gonna benefit from lessons, but. What we do is we try to push the, the industry, we try to push golf instruction in the desired direction, like in a direction that we believe is going to, is gonna get the masses of golfers better.

25:21 There's just been so much golf instruction that has prioritized the instructors preferences and what they're looking at over the this is what this person, this individual needs their goals. Right here in front, like in, in like the, the like, like the fact-based evidence of like, what is the club doing relative to the golf ball?, Let's, let's prioritize what it's doing relative to what they would like it to do. And then like the swing stuff can be. Developed through their pursuing that task. Um, you know, obviously that's kind of how I, how I like to see it.

26:02 That's how I think it, it should be. And I think you do too. And um, yeah, that's, that's what we're going to keep pushing for down the, days the days of play better golf. Go take a lesson. Okay, checkpoint one, checkpoint two, check ho. Hopefully those are going by the wayside. know, Yes. swing revamping, this is, you have to be in this position Yeah. because it's just not, I think that this framework of development, which is what I call, this is the terminology that I use, um, I share that with my, I shared it with my interns and I'm gonna be doing it with my, we, we just hired three new pros, um, at CCV, all straight outta college basically.

26:50 So it's fun, like they're, they're ready to go. And And when we do so, I clue them into the right? Like talking about, uh, a little bit more, a little bit bigger. It's like a 30 slide document to be honest. Hmm. do it all at once. We kind of go through it, and what I say is, when you Is, come to see you, if you're understanding this the right they drop into your world. figure out who they are and why they're there and what they want to do. Yeah, drop into the framework somewhere. There's no starting point, yeah. get better at figuring out where that is, and then you figure it takes to allow them to make one step forward essentially.

27:38 Yeah. keep taking one step forward that keep getting better and better. Yeah. improves and things get better. So it could be strategy, it it could be swing, Or some combination, like you said, they're not wholly separate from one another, but kind of. And so you drop'em in, you communicate really well, and you say, ma'am, we need to work on this today. Here. Here's where I think you are. Here, here's, let's talk about what's going on. And then hopefully they gain an understanding and they. They take that one step, they know how to practice it. They, they can practice effectively that growth mindset and figure out how to take that one step in the next direction.

28:24 That's how it should work. It shouldn't be, Hey, I want to improve. Okay, Okay. here's everything I know about golf. Here's the things I'm gonna have you Yes. what Yeah. point, this is what I like to see. that, going by the wayside. And that leaves a lot of room, like I said, for individuality in the swing and the club, that that really can lead to some fun golf, you know, like Yeah. locked up golfers, like try to figure it out all the Mm-hmm. fun to see people just practicing their skills on the call. The Yes. all the time. Yeah. Um, so anyway, anyway, that discussion that discussion there Sort of sort of.

29:10 in Yep. the whole thing, but it's idea, It's like the piece. I mean, within that you have equipment, have, you know, stuff with the body. You Yeah, attentional I'm clo I'm close to putting, I'm close to putting equipment in the strategy bin. I think that makes the most sense to me in terms of like where it is. It's interesting you say that. I was actually thinking where does, does. where does it, I think it's strategy personally. I think it most affects but maybe strategy too.

29:53 It just depends on how you, how you dole it out. Because like when It depends. Yeah, it depends because like to me, when I talking about skill, like that is like you're, you're training a motor pattern, you're training your. Um, you're training your brain to perceive where the club is in space, right? The and where the face is and the speed. Yeah. Change someone, affect where the ball true. Change and affect or change someone's someone's. length of club or or center mass of a club or loft and change things like face opener, close dynamic loft touching the swing.

30:38 Right. Yeah. that's why I was so that's why I was gonna say, it really fits into, for me it's for me, it's like, yeah, really goes back to am I impacting impact. and making it do the thing in that moment, Mm. Okay. Yeah, I can see that. Yeah. that's where the influence, so So basically like the other day he swing. At all. Mm-hmm. talk about his swing. He wasn't there to change his swing. He is an avid golfer, handicap, whatever, four days a week. Comes in for a club fitting and he's got like a 11.5 driver.

31:23 And so he makes like, and it's not brand new, five, six years old, I can't remember what brand it was. So he makes like five or six. We hit it dead straight, like right off the middle of the Right off the middle face. Yeah. straight. 3,200 spin at degrees, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. um, Um, drop the loft down a little bit, right Mm-hmm. Yeah. he gained 20 carry, 20 yards carry. I Yeah. makes sense. yards carry distance. So his skillset, his skillset, his skill. you know, it changed. Yeah. up, know, and so I would say, anyway, that's kind of how I it Yeah.

32:04 I can see that. I like it from multiple. my, my dumb brain's thinking like, okay, like a part of strategy is like club selection. Like Yeah, like you're literally pulling the club outta the back. So like. What club are you pulling outta the bag? Like that's what you're changing. So like, that's, that's kind of much. Yeah, so it's, it's Yeah, yeah, yeah. that influence, right? Where you're No, I, I, I see your, I see your point too. 'cause in that context, you're taking a delivered skill. Here's a different club, you're getting a different delivered skill. So like I, yeah, I totally, I Yeah. So we did talk about equipment. mindset, which definitely I would say Yes.

32:48 That's strategy. Big time. Yeah. the body stuff, which I would say probably Yeah. And you said, Yeah. you said you doing you doing injure yourself? It was interesting that you said that if what go back to when he was talking about the swing and what you're trying to get out of it, you said, am I in a position to injure myself? Right. Second of all, can I Yeah. something you know, better shots, essentially? Right. Yeah. I was, I I was, a I was having a young and eager. Trainers, right? So you Mm-hmm. They wanna learn They about they want they wanna be, you fitness to play better golf, which is great, yep.

33:38 I think there's a lot of benefit to that. when I said to them, 80% of what you should be doing with country Club golfers is focused on injury prevention, they were shocked to hear yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought we were doing box boy. Like, think about who's your clientele is. Right? gentlemen that work at desks. You got, they Yep. You know, they're getting older. They may train, a lot of our members are very healthy. They work out a lot, right? Like it's a, it's a healthy membership. They don't train for golf. They train, they train in a push pull kind of way.

34:21 which you can be very strong and fit doing that and injure yourself playing golf'cause you're not training in any rotational planes. you know, you know, weaker weaker. and all these things. And like, Yeah. be be focused on that. Whether that. Whether you tell them that matter. really matter, right? Mm-hmm. hard make a selling point. Right. But you, but you could say your golf appointments performance will improve. Yeah. By being mobile and strong in the right areas and, and being able to move better and having better balance. And, and these things, they first are gonna to less injury Yeah.

35:03 you know, they're gonna help your performance. So, I mean, I think that's, think that's the falls under like swing performance for sure. yeah. and, and so we go through that too and we'll, we will talk Talk about. know, limitations and what people can do, what they can't do, into the swing. Um, yeah, Yeah. it, so I fun. Robbie, I'm, fun, fun, Robbie. I'm, I'm, I'm really excited for the next chapter. a little Yeah. the It's fun having people People, Erica. New episode coming anytime and, uh, yeah.

35:43 Yeah, it's coming. asking like, all right, who, who died? Well, what's happening? Yeah. and Robbie have a fight? No, no, no. We're good. We're cool. as we've Oh gosh. ever been. Did someone, someone say that? Yeah. you, Oh my God. still? Are y'all okay? We cool? No we're not divorced. get to more, we No you know, people go through stuff. yep. um, yeah, no, Yeah, So what else I'm excited. So what else you wanna talk about tonight? Yeah, do you have a, do you have some questions? Do you have some mail back stuff? You have some forms form forum stuff that we can, that we can pick on.

36:25 through Oh man. I thought you had'em like on, I thought you had them like that in front of you. right now. Um, one of the ones I saw, which, which was, so this just goes back, I kinda actually mentioned this just a little bit ago, but I saw one that was like, play a 12 degree driver. Do you think I should change that or something? And people get rid all these answers. The, Yeah. is maybe, it really depends you launch Yes. like, you, you, you, you can't go find just Find, Yeah. and have these great answers if you, if you understand If you understand the process of what it takes to play better.

37:10 then you'll know that you'll that's a context list. Is that a word? Lacking context question. Textless less. Yeah. lacking context for sure. Yep. So be, have to be be, you have to be asking, right? and some people, people don't. I think people I think people generally just to play better. I will tell you they're looking for the secret. the secret. I will tell you something that I've been doing recently wife and children It is getting back into playing my guitar song, which I hadn't done for years.

37:53 Mm. Cool. got a really, really sweet guitar for my wife for Um, kind of like a dream, like for people that play guitar, like it's like a dream guitar, right? Hmm. it also, also it, it's a, it's an electric guitar. Um. It's challenging me challenging. new things, right? Yeah. I do? I do what everybody go on YouTube and try to figure out how to and guess what? It's frustrating and it's maddening and nothing helps me, right? Like I have plenty of skills. I'm like, I'm like a, I'm like a golfer that like, you're like, oh, that guy could do some things right?

38:36 But he like has the yips putting or something. No, it's not, that's not a good, that's not a good Well, what level, so are you a level 1, 2, 3, or four guitar player? I would I, I could play the acoustic guitar, you know, you wanna listen to a real strum song, right? Like a open chord, crummy, acoustic, country song, rock song, all that style of playing. I'm like. Pretty good. Like yeah, like decent, like pretty good, right? It could play songs. It do, do it Yeah. good rhythm, good like it's, I'm pretty, I'm not trying to brag, good. But when it goes to heavier bluesy, lead Hmm I have no skill at all.

39:20 'cause I've never done it. Hmm. saying? Like, I So as soon as you go to the wet dorm in Bermuda, I in, in the winter time, why am I knifing everything? But I will tell you, there's so many, learning and it, it's, it's like anything else's skill development, right? So it's like I'm learning Yeah. motor skill, it's it through music, through a playing an instrument, you know, learning I wanna play. I don't know. I wanna play Sta. I'm just saying this is a ram. It's not an answer, but I wanna play Stairway to Heaven. I wanna play the solo and Stairway to Heaven. I'll be like, Jimmy Page. Right. I mean, I don't understand scales really.

40:01 'cause I never played scales. I don't play lead. I don't play. I don't play that style. Like everything I do is on the top Mm-hmm. playing court, open courts as opposed to on the bottom and in the middle where you're you know that fast stuff. And then there's tone of the guitar and there's amplifiers and like. All this stuff that I just, it's a new world, but there's so much of it. And if I try to go on and like, oh, learn to do this, the context is so lacking that you can't figure out where you are in the process, right? A hundred percent. remedial'cause I'm really good at other stuff or decent other stuff. And then can't do that at all and I don't really understand it. So what I've decided is music theory is like understanding ball light loss.

40:45 It's the foundation of it, right? It's like I gotta understand notes, scales, keys, that kind of thing. then I'll be able to, but that's like that's like. how ball flight laws And then I can, then to make sense, right? Yeah, also the things we talk about, like pacing your practice and if I do it in shorter do more often, more often, better that's better for an hour once every three days. Right. I try to or 10 minutes and do stuff and then do that a couple times a day. it's amazing how I feel like that's way better than me sitting for an hour and try to figure something out. Um, so it's, So it's, it's, uh, it's very.

41:29 Yeah. I think And so I think that for us, those of us that teach, quote, those those, that teach should never succeed. Mm-hmm. it's attributed attributed, the point the point is we, we don't we, learn, right? Like we're yeah. do teach like teaching and Like that's Teaching and learning like that. I was telling you before you and I speak golf performance, We're so wrapped up in it. We speak golf performance all day. We play day, teach it, we think about it, we watch it, watch it, and and. listener to or the a the regular They're in and out of it.

42:10 Their life is not golf. that's how I am with music. I, I go like everything else and then I drop into I drop into it alright, what am I doing now? Right. it's and to learn, like, like immersion like conversion. go to a two week guitar camp, myself in it for a while and Yeah. It's I think about for a mo I take a sabbatical and spend six months doing it. But. That's not how my life is. So I'm in and outta the brain is switched off from, about it all, and then I drop into it and that's how golfers are. I go to work and I'm Work, stocks and I'm a lawyer and I'm doing these things and then I'm a doctor and then, know, I'm you lives. And knows, go to the country club and to to figure club how do out.

42:53 grip? what was, what Yes. me my left Yeah. Like, know,'cause it's just in top of mind. Right. I think Cool. If you If you understand the developmental helps build like yeah. And that's what I was talking about. It's very, similar to anything. I'm sure fitness is like this and music and gymnastics and Mm-hmm. type of skill you would, you would want to learn for your. Yeah. And then one thing that actually. You made me realize as you were talking, like as you were discussing your guitar is like what you, the answer that you gave me was like, oh, I'm, I'm a level one in, in this aspect of playing guitar.

43:37 I'm a level two aspect in this playing guitar, and I'm a level, maybe a level three in this. So when we're going through these level 1, 2, 3, 4 discussions, it's always gonna start with some of the data that we have that is gonna educate you on. Based off of your, where you are in your game and actually where you are in each aspect of your game, right? Are you a level 1, 2, 3, 4 driver versus your approach play versus your short game versus your putting? Um, and so because you could, you could be a level two golfer from a scoring average standpoint, but be a level three putter. Right. But the reason why you're level two is because you are like injury level one when it comes to your driver, right?

44:20 So, so our goal is to, is to, and what something that we're gonna work on is to make sure that you all have some, some concrete stats, some concrete ways for you to distinguish what areas of your game are your strengths, right? And we're gonna teach you which areas to prioritize in terms of like, Hey, based off of where you are. This aspect of the game, you probably need to prioritize that or try to get that to be a strength of your game, right? Because for some golfers, like there are elements, uh, again, between like driving approach, shorting and putting that just aren't as relevant, that we're not gonna really care. Like if you're a entry level two, here's an example, right? Like if you are an entry level to.

45:04 Golfer and you want to get to the end of level two, right? We're talking like, Hey, you're, you're averaging 87. You'd like to get all the way down to like 78. If you're currently like a le, like an entry level two putter, we don't really care that you get to the end of level two in putting, like, that's not how you're probably gonna get there, right? We're gonna prioritize, hey, let's to get you to the end of level two. Let's kind of push driving, let's push approach, play as much as we can to get our shots to green. To where they need to be, right? Because we know based off of the stats, like your shots to green, your, your A-K-A-K-A, your greens and regulation are really what's going to like get you to the end of level two.

45:45 And we're gonna prioritize that while not. Allowing your putting and your short game to be so far down there into like level one to where it's a detriment. So like we're gonna prioritize like, Hey, can we get, can we just keep the putting in the short game good enough? Can we have a good enough floor so that we can really kind of. Spend the time improving the ceiling of your, of your driving. Like that's gonna be some of the stuff that we're gonna be, um, delving into, uh, and getting y'all to understand really, like effective time management and, and spending your, you know, your valuable time when you go and practice in a, in a very kind of smart, productive way.

46:25 point there. Like what is that, what is that What is that? What is. in the framework in the moment based on who I am and to do, where I want to go? is Yep. that I have to work on? Right. I had one the other I had one the other day kind of goes um, stories from our A really good player who I've worked with a long time and he's now in the age of senior golf and he's good. So this is, this is a guy that's like 52 years old and has, I think his driver club speed's still like a hundred, 1,012. Mm-hmm. athletic.

47:05 Played two sports division, one in college, like very athletic I just move it. So like at So years old he's thinking, he's like a one, maybe a one or I think maybe a two a pretty, like this is kind of the point of the story is like pretty mediocre wedge play. So So it came to when it to like assess to meet and have a game plan. I'm like, this is great. I plan. it out and um. and um. he's well he's, of where, where he needs to improve there. But we but he looked and I was and, so so a little bit of a tinker.

47:45 can be especially good athletes, I feel like'cause they can, makes sense. Like if I have sense. Like if I have I can like, well, Yeah, this. know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was like, Hey, I was like, Hey, here's here's you can to all the skills. So let's not Let's not take, let's actually, let's let's take a little take a little bit of like a approach to it's where it's just simply strategy. Mm-hmm. On, basically. can, right? Yep. So I'm like in the maintenance phase with the monkey with it The, putting is okay.

48:31 like we're kind of in maintenance phase there Mm-hmm. for you to go from two to plus two maybe. It's actually Person. game and probably medium, which Mm-hmm. we're gonna gonna try to develop to, there in yeah. In whatever way we gonna be maintenance. And then I gave him one thing to And I said, when you practice the full swing, of tinkering with your swing,'cause you're gonna pra he's a practicer. Right. Likes to practice. Yep. instead of like Sort of like getting out there in being like, well lemme try this because do. Right? Like, That's what people do. Yep. this thing. I said, don't I said, don't do that.

49:11 I said, put your fingers like this. Okay. 'cause you're a good Yeah. Look at a target trying to get fingers. fingers and see how you're doing Yeah. Yeah. then, about on the What about on? I'm like, thinking. Absolutely right. So there's your There's your, Went and played the when the next day. I played a great round the finger thing about anything else. He's like, I just, he said it said up in a way I've never been freed up That's really cool. is good. Right? Because his focus on his full swing to change a little bit. I wanted it yeah. from swing and tinkering just strategy Right?

49:56 Mm-hmm. then gonna develop some skills in the short game. That'll be great. And Yeah. but I had to. Give him something else to it worked really well. And he's Yeah. That's awesome. loved, he loves it. He's like, all the people are asking me what I'm doing, and I'm like, I'm not Um, so that Tell him to listen. tune Yeah. the golf intervention. If you, if you go back in time, we do mention that was it on the Substack on that? I think I think so. Yeah, it was. a, if you're a subscriber to our, um. on the substack. you can have have access to that strategy episode, which was phenomenal.

50:39 And we went over finger dispersions, um, which is really a which is really a aiming your on your, it's some, it's uh, guidelines handicap and what Yeah. probably is and how you would hone that in on the course. And then give you a way goal to practice towards, Yep. when you practice. So. I'm glad we brought that up. from our lessons. Pretty exciting. Pretty exciting. Well, Rob, Well, Ralph to mention mention, I don't think so. I think we hit on it. fun being and, it. is fun. I'm looking on the ground. I didn't even notice you wow.

51:20 Yeah. I haven't looked out either. Yeah, they, well, there was no There was no snow when we started. No, it's covered. is, white, so. Oh my gosh, but is Karen, we're gonna call it Karen. great. or Karen, that's the names of the storm. And uh, Next one can be Todd. Todd. Yeah, we alternate. So thank you for tuning in. We'll be back at you, uh, starting a new We will decide what we're gonna start with. We haven't actually decided yet, but we will we're gonna keep you hanging on that one. You'll have to wait.

52:00 on something, but we do like, the series and I like, Yeah, it's gonna be fire for sure. a format, like, gotta have a format. I like, I like the, I like the, the organization, but then like, that's where I stop. Like if I get any more organized than that, my brain just, just fries and I'm, I speak gibberish the entire time. Well, we, we learned that early on in the podcast. Like, I, I need very, just like basic like, Hey, here's what we're generally gonna talk about, and then just let me go. Uh. You talked for a right. Yeah. we don't to overthink. need to overthink it. I Yeah. because this podcast, we put a couple in my family, which I never knew.

52:45 I never thought they thought this about me, but they were like. I can't believe you can get on a podcast and talk like that because you, you don't talk I guess when they come to visit or, funny story actually. I talk all day. Right. I think that's what it Yeah, yeah, teaching coaching like literally Mm-hmm. you come home you're not like, let's have a chat. And Yep. one in Nope, we are not. what I was doing at work. That is not absolutely not. No. And it does not care. to give a hoot about golf Yes.

53:28 it probably works better that way. Um, and so, think it's funny you, how did you like I can't picture you talking like that'cause you don't talk. I'm like, you know, I talk all the time, Mm-hmm. Um, this is this is our inaugural 2.0. Yep. with us. Tell your friends about us if you'd like to. If not, that's Keep it to yourself. We're okay with that too. As long as you feel like you're getting outta the show what you need. since it's free, you're getting what you pay for at least. Maybe you'll, it'll bring you a little bit of listening. Pleasure. In the next few days, if you're stuck at home, which I feel like I will probably be here in Central Virginia.

54:12 So Yeah, for rip. us out next time. If you, if you're so rate and review us with that five star rating on Apple and Spotify. We have a perfect five star rating on both, which again is super Um, that. How many, how many one star ratings did you have to go and delete? Well, you can't, Two star delete. Oh, So when I was looking up at there's some different ways that they your show. um, for the amount of listeners that we have, we have like a lot of ratings I guess like Yeah.

54:52 um, And uh, you know,'cause you know, typically do it. Like, I was was like, I one day I, I love podcasts. I don't listen to tons. I, I have a to listen to and I went in and rated'em all one day. 'cause I was like, you know what, it'll take me two minutes to do that. And it does help them, it helps'em out. Yeah, for sure. or whatnot, which we don't care about algorithms here, but you're so obliged and you're bored and you wanna rate all your favorite shows, five stars, you could go on and take just a minute. You could do that on our website, the golf intervention. Dot com. You can actually rate the show there. Just click through to all the different if you'd like to, and you can learn more about Rob and I with our bios on there.

55:32 But otherwise, But otherwise we're glad and, uh, we hope that you have a great day and week if you're in a place that you can, and we will Yep. next time on the Golf Intervention Podcast. Cheers. I.