EP 56: Golf Improvement Theory. The Listener Mailbag

Eric 0:06

Welcome back to the Golf Intervention Podcast. It is a Tuesday a Monday after a Sunday where Rory McElroy won the Masters for the second time. Man, I'm such a Rory fan, so that was cool to watch. Made me sweat it out a little bit there at times, but

Rob 0:25

Awesome.

Eric 0:26

it

Rob 0:26

One. The of us was actually,

Eric 0:27

of us was actually at the Masters, and I'll say it was not me. So I guess you could figure out.

Rob 0:33

yes. So did you have a good time down there? Oh, it was awesome. Yeah. It's so cool being there. We were not there on Sunday.

Eric 0:40

so.

Rob 0:40

were there on Monday.

Eric 0:41

Okay.

Rob 0:42

Um. And it's just, it's magical. It's like it's a place where literally everyone is in like the best mood of their lives, right? It's like not a blade of grass outta place. The whole entire staff, even from the bathroom attendants are just funny, nice. You go into the snack stands, people are there greeting you and they're never over the top. That's the cool thing. It's like they're never to the point to where it's too much. We put our chairs down to the left of 16. As soon as we got there and just walked the course, I was with my buddy Seth Mers., And he brought his wife Holly. She's never been before, so it was really cool to, to show her and, and see her, and allow her to kind of see that, I will be bringing my wife there one day. Just wasn't able to work out this time, but we walked the whole entire golf course. Um, never ever, ever gets old and augusta's one place where you never have to see a single shot and you still have an amazing time the entire day., And then towards the end, we went back to 16, sat in our chairs. I ate an,, embarrassing number of sandwiches, and we, uh.

Eric 1:48

What?

Rob 1:48

We saw them, uh, skip it over the water. Um, yeah, so it's, it is just such a fun day and, never gets old going, that's for sure.

Eric 1:59

Have you been there during the

Rob 2:00

Mm-hmm.

Eric 2:01

tournament

Rob 2:02

Yep.

Eric 2:03

Yeah. Is it, what's the vibe like those days versus

Rob 2:06

Oh yeah. It's, it's very different. I think. It's, it's a lot more trying to figure out what's going on in the tournament, which. They do such a great job at Augusta of making sure that there's al almost always a scoreboard that is visible. Um, so you do get those live updates of what's going on in the tournament. Obviously you don't have your phone, so it's hard to really know what's going on., But between a couple of my favorite spots to kind of sit and watch people come through., I love camping out at,, two Green and watching the second shots in on two, and then watching the tee shots on three. That's such a great spot. Um, Love being there in Amen Corner, obviously. So just being there to the right of 11 and just watching their approach shots in on 11 and then watch their tee shots on 12 is pretty magical. That's the,

Eric 2:57

spot. That would be the spot.

Rob 2:58

But, uh, yeah, you're, you're not really there to. As much keep track of the tournament. I think I've found, like if you go there with the intention of, okay, I'm gonna follow the tournament today, you're probably gonna be a little bit, I'm never gonna say disappointed, but like it's, you're not really there to keep track of the tournament unless you are following the final groups. Like if you're on the last day and you're just walking along with. One of the final groups, then you can kind of keep track of what's going on. But for the most part, you're watching your favorite players. You're camping out, you're watching, you know, people play through. And, there's no wrong way to do Augusta. For sure. One day I'll go,

Eric 3:36

One day I'll go.

Rob 3:37

told you I'm gonna, I'm gonna drag you down there next year.

Eric 3:41

Yeah, I definitely want to go, as you

Rob 3:43

So.

Eric 3:44

so I almost wanted to do an entire episode this year's Masters and discuss some of the bigger takeaways, that I think golfers and our listeners could really

Rob 3:57

couple like different Moments, uh,

Eric 3:59

moments,

Rob 4:00

the master,

Eric 4:01

in the Masters this year that I thought was. Really interesting, one of which was Victor Hoagland's interview after the tournament.

Rob 4:10

no, I did not.

Eric 4:11

Victor Hoagland's interview after the tournament? So I set a few episodes ago that I thought understanding the ball flight loss. As pertained to how the club and the ball interact and what that does to the, know, to the, to the ball flight akin to learning music theory. If you're gonna learn to play an instrument, I don't remember what episode I said that on, but the point being, you can play golf without knowing that stuff. For sure. Most of the people listening to this, right? Most, I'd say 99% of golfers that. golf, don't have a full understanding of the ball flight laws. I get it. but the better your understanding of it is just like, maybe the better understanding you have of music theory could help you be a more

Rob 5:01

Yeah.

Eric 5:01

artist or, you know,, instrumentalist, we'll call it right. Victor Holin, you know, kind of talked about it after the round. I wish I had the quote right in front of me, but he basically said like, yeah, the ball was kind of going all over the place, but because I understand the ball flight laws, I know how to try to make that work and I know what I need to do to get better. Right. Essentially. But he was basically saying he could play with what he had because he understood how it all worked. Right. And he was describing. Path and face stuff. So it was cool. I mean, if you find it, I don't remember where it was. It was on Instagram somewhere. I saw it. I thought that was a great conversation. We could have had a whole episode on that. Um, I thought all the conversation around McElroy. Not hitting the ball particularly well with the driver early. Right. And he's leading by a

Rob 5:54

Yeah.

Eric 5:55

amount, not really driving it straight 'cause he is driving it so far and getting lucky at times. I didn't watch the first few rounds, but I, I see he got lucky sometimes. And obviously he's awesome Then he was pulling his iron shots, like I did see that late Saturday. I was watching the end of that. He was pulling some iron shots and then he went to the range and Oh, he worked it out. Rory worked it out the range, but you hear what he said.

Rob 6:19

What'd he say? I mean, it was like,

Eric 6:21

like, this is beautiful, right? This is exactly what I tell people every

Rob 6:24

yeah.

Eric 6:25

like, yeah, I was hooking it because my, I was getting my path too much to the right, which is basically closing my face to path again. He's talking ball flight law stuff,

Rob 6:33

I tried to

Eric 6:33

so I

Rob 6:34

some cuts.

Eric 6:35

some cuts. Like I went to

Rob 6:37

It's beautiful.

Eric 6:38

a bunch

Rob 6:38

Yeah. Chef's kiss.

Eric 6:41

getting my path to the left, turning hard. He called it turning

Rob 6:44

It's just different face to path. Yeah.

Eric 6:46

LA lazy with my lower, but yeah, it's just face to path stuff, right? So what was he doing? He's trying to do the opposite of what the issue was, and if you can work that out, you call that finding the guardrails. Basically it's like now I can balance it out in the middle somewhere.

Rob 6:59

wasn't perfect on Sunday night,

Eric 7:01

on

Rob 7:01

but I.

Eric 7:02

any means, but I feel like he had a much better control of what he was trying to do. And and he talked about that. He talked about that multiple times after the round was over. So anytime the masters comes around, it's like everybody is watching. There's such a hyper focus on player interactions and the interviews and what they're doing. There's so much commentary. I mean, there was commentary. Uh, that kind of circled through our world from

Rob 7:30

Again,

Eric 7:31

a, again, one of the. Golf channel guys who doesn't always quite maybe understand what he's talking about when it comes to the ball. Flight stuff completely messed it up. So this is why I wanted to kind of go into that and we're not gonna go into that today. Maybe we'll do it another time, but this is why it's so confusing. He was trying to describe quote unquote, steep and shallow. We discussed again in this series where I don't even say those words with my students anymore,

Rob 7:56

Completely.

Eric 7:56

you could completely, Substitute other better words than steep and shallow and people can get a better understanding for what's going on there. So, yeah, he was confused on steep and shallow. He basically said that Scotty Scheffler came over the top, which he doesn't at all. Like, did you

Rob 8:15

no I didn't. That's crazy.

Eric 8:16

anyway, you wonder why people are confused,

Rob 8:19

that's what I'm saying. Like

Eric 8:19

that's

Rob 8:19

this stuff is so confusing

Eric 8:21

so confusing for

Rob 8:22

that's why.

Eric 8:23

and that's why we have the show. We're trying to sort it out for you and we go through things like the bald white laws. 'cause we want you to understand it. It's a little bit nerdy at times, but if you can speak that language, I feel like you're understanding of what's going on. Just like Victor Hovland said, if I understand it, I know how to play with it and I know how to keep working on it.

Rob 8:43

I don't,

Eric 8:43

And if I don't really understand it. It's much, much more difficult. So

Rob 8:47

I thought that was, I thought that was,

Eric 8:49

I thought that was some interesting takes from the Masters and, yeah, can't wait for the next one for

Rob 8:54

yep.

Eric 8:55

Greatest event of the year, greatest

Rob 8:57

No doubt. So.

Eric 8:58

So. On this episode, we promised we would do a sort of

Rob 9:03

Uh.

Eric 9:04

Uh, so we've been collecting some questions from folks about our latest series on golf improvement theory. So we went through those three episodes and we thank you if you. them out and sent us a question. We definitely have collected some, we have some that are relevant and some that we feel like might be more relevant for other series, so we we're kind of saving them but please keep reaching out with the questions. We, we love some questions. So

Rob 9:31

how has your

Eric 9:32

has

Rob 9:32

interaction been?

Eric 9:34

been with people listening to that last, series of

Rob 9:37

you have any?

Eric 9:37

And do you have any, questions from your students about anything that we

Rob 9:41

Yeah, so, I think overall just continuing to beat the drama of separating strategy, skill, and swing, I think. Most everyone is, has very, very positive feedback. Especially have a clear understanding of the differences in those three, has been the biggest thing. And then,, a question that I got was about wind. And when are we gonna do like any sort of deep dive into wind and wind? Is wind relevant for you? Like for a particular golfer? Like when is wind a thing? And then. For different levels of golfer, does the influence of wind change? So the answer is to both questions. It's gonna be yes, the influence of wind is gonna fluctuate for a given individual, and then it also, the influence of it on our scoring and predicting it and accounting for it accurately is, and the importance of that does get greater as you get up the, the learning curve, the as you move from level one all the way through to level four. With all of our series we're planning to do, so we're gonna do a, driver series, basically a or you, I, you could say just driving in general series, an approach play series, a short game series and a putting series wind is gonna be a factor in the strategy episode within all four of those different, series. So we will do deep dives into win for each of these. But as a general rule,, what we typically see is if you are flying your driver less than 150 yards ish, you can pretty much ignore wind for your long game for the most part. It's just not going to move the needle, so to speak, on what is, what is important for you, wind for these golfers who are limited speed. Wind and predicting wind is gonna actually be more relevant for,, short game and putting, and even then it's lower on the priority list of things that are gonna be relevant for them, right? So if you can picture this level one golfer who's, working a lot on ARC location, working a lot on improving their club at speed, it's very rare that I'm gonna put their attention. Very heavily on, on wind., Once you're able to, to fly your driver upwards of 190 to 200 yards, then it's gonna have much more of an influence. And then we talk about just getting the direction of wind correct. Maybe not as much tuning the amount of wind, but can you be aware of the direction of wind,, throughout the entire game for those golfers? For sure. And then once you get into. End of level two, early level three, where you're flying your driver upwards of 240, 2 50, you know, into two 60, then it's not enough. If we, if you picture this end of level two, level three, and then all the way through level four golfer, it's not enough just to get the direction of wind correct. You need to understand how much and then how much you're adjusting your intended direction and intended distance for that wind. So we're gonna, trust me, we're gonna go deep dive into, into some wind. Especially with those strategy episodes as we work through each series, driving approach, short game putting. But that's kind of like a nice, preview or overview of how we think about wind for those different levels.

Eric 13:06

And again, you saw at the Masters how much they pay

Rob 13:09

And how much it changes Wind. Wind doesn't follow linear rules like it does not follow, it does its own thing. So as much as you can think, you've got the wind nailed down. At the end of the day, you never truly know what exactly the wind that your golf ball's gonna see. So that's where taking the overall data in a golf course and what we're gonna talk about maybe in a little bit is like it. Some apps out there are, are phenomenal of like just getting okay for today what is my, what is my average wind in my average wind direction? And more often than not going off of that, you can definitely look at tops of trees. I'm not a huge, huge fan of throwing grass, in general just because the wind can swirl when you get down at kind of the much lower levels and you're just not gonna typically get as accurate representation of what the ball's actually seeing and how it's responding up at the top of the, of the arc. And very similar to putting what's happening in the middle third of the ball flights. Probably what's the most relevant, the first third, last third, not gonna be as, as relevant as what's going on in that middle third when the ball's up. Again, think about like end of level two golfers that golf ball's peaking out at 70, 80, 90, a hundred, sometimes feet high. Like understanding what's happening up there is really what's relevant. So there's a lot of different ways that you can do that and ways that we're gonna talk about and options that you have for that for sure.

Eric 14:28

How the wind swirls

Rob 14:30

It's,

Eric 14:30

Corner is

Rob 14:31

it's unbelievable. Yes.

Eric 14:32

thing. Rory talked about that. 'cause I was curious about, so there's a good targeting, here's a good targeting story, right? We talk about trying to aim your dispersion, right? So

Rob 14:43

Yeah.

Eric 14:44

on, on 12, right? And everybody's aiming, especially since the Jordan Spieth disaster. And then you had the, the Brooks Keka. Francesco Molinari, like how many, what, when Tiger won, did they, five of the last six players sit

Rob 14:59

Yeah.

Eric 15:00

or something like that? Like it was

Rob 15:01

Sheriff. Yeah.

Eric 15:02

absurd, maybe it was three of the last four. I mean, it was crazy, right? Tiger didn't, and basically

Rob 15:06

Yep.

Eric 15:07

did and that won 'em the tournament. So he, you know, you have to aim over the middle of the bunker no matter where that flag is. And, Rory hit like apu, it looked like a little punch cut

Rob 15:20

Yeah.

Eric 15:21

Um,

Rob 15:22

said

Eric 15:23

basically said, no, I wasn't quite aiming there, but I knew the wind could push it just depending on what happens. And if I caught that, if it did, where it ended up was in the range of

Rob 15:33

That's cool.

Eric 15:34

said.

Rob 15:34

Yeah.

Eric 15:35

Right. Yeah, he said he did. He said it wasn't gonna be any further right than that. He didn't feel like, but he knew if it got, if he got that little baby cut ride in the wind, if it picked up a little bit. And he said he basically learned from Tom Watson to stand on that tee box and wait for the wind that you won and then just hurry up and hit.

Rob 15:51

That's cool. That's awesome.

Eric 15:53

And so he just stood there, felt it a little off his shoulder and he said I was gonna hit this little punchy nine, and it just rode the

Rob 15:59

Yeah.

Eric 16:00

Um, to get over to that whole location. 'cause with the lead, I mean, you're

Rob 16:03

No.

Eric 16:04

location, but you know, he said it was in the range of outcomes. So that's what we're saying. Like, but if Rory would've aimed it at that flag with a punchy cut, nine iron, he probably would've hit it in the water. Right? So that, that was a range of

Rob 16:15

Mm-hmm.

Eric 16:15

he didn't want. So he aimed at sort of right center of the bunker

Rob 16:18

Yeah.

Eric 16:19

And it moved it, I don't know,

Rob 16:21

Yeah.

Eric 16:21

30 feet probably., And then he caught a little ridge and rolled down there to the hole, which was super, super cool. So, so much to learn from the masters, so much to learn.

Rob 16:32

Um,

Eric 16:33

Um,

Rob 16:33

a question from,

Eric 16:34

from an email?

Rob 16:36

let's do it.

Eric 16:37

We can do that from a listener. got this one from. Liam and Liam's a member at CCV and he said this a long time ago. So thank you, Liam, for your question. He sent a few, but we've, we picked the one that we felt was most relevant, to this series. So he's saying practice versus play. How do you fight the find the right balance between OnCourse play and using the practice area? If you're a 10 handicap with you feel like average 10 handicap skills across the board who has some flexibility of your schedule, and wanted to improve their game by about three strokes, what training plan would you come up with for basically the course of, say, three

Rob 17:22

We're

Eric 17:23

here we are. Now we're into the season where you can play, you can practice. The days are longer. The, the, and the grass and the conditions are really good, right? So I've got three months trying to take three

Rob 17:34

That's,

Eric 17:34

my

Rob 17:35

that's aggressive.

Eric 17:36

which is, you

Rob 17:36

That,

Eric 17:37

just 30% of my handicap. No big

Rob 17:40

yeah.

Eric 17:40

but I like it. In fact, I think that you.

Rob 17:44

If you go back to our very,

Eric 17:45

to our very first few episodes, this is

Rob 17:48

yeah.

Eric 17:48

about, right? This was essentially, we said, why don't golfers improve? It was basically a big question that we're trying to answer. We wanted to put out there what we thought about golf improvement. And we kind of just framed it in that way, like, how do I come up with a plan for improvement? And I thought what really helped us was a look into scoring data for different levels of player. Right. And so if I'm a 10 handicap, there's some data relevant

Rob 18:16

Yep. This.

Eric 18:17

and this is where Strokes game gets a little tricky. Like if I use arcos or something, you know, you're like, oh, compare myself to a 10. Oh, I'm, I'm, I'm right on across the board. What do I work on if I'm, if I'm comparing myself to a scratch, I'm like. Losing the same amount of strokes

Rob 18:34

Mm-hmm.

Eric 18:34

the board. Like what do I work on and why? What am I trying to

Rob 18:37

Yep.

Eric 18:39

So the data that we tried to help provide through Game Forge contextualizes, that scoring difference, I think a

Rob 18:47

For sure.

Eric 18:47

right? Like how often am I hitting it inside 20 feet for birdie? And around how many times am I. a penalty or a disruptor shot where I have to chip

Rob 18:59

Yep.

Eric 19:00

How many times am I three putting versus making sort of a long put. I like that ratio a lot as you get to being a better, player.

Rob 19:10

I think.

Eric 19:11

and then I think just in the short game, I've had a lot of discussion in short game with, with better players when they're like, what is my, what is my strategy for proving my short game? And I'm like. it's about proximity. Like it's about how often can I get it to six feet and

Rob 19:25

And you know, sometimes,

Eric 19:27

you

Rob 19:27

sometimes

Eric 19:28

eight feet or sometimes

Rob 19:29

you're trying to figure out

Eric 19:31

to figure

Rob 19:31

as a player

Eric 19:32

as a player

Rob 19:34

how,

Eric 19:35

how good

Rob 19:35

yeah.

Eric 19:36

that, essentially.

Rob 19:37

so

Eric 19:37

And so at a, as a 10 handicap,

Rob 19:39

sort of average.

Eric 19:41

sort of average 10 handicap player data in front of me, but basically I would say the 10 handicaps. I know. probably chipping it super close to the hole all the time. So I think I'd probably start there if I was trying to,

Rob 19:55

Trying to,

Eric 19:56

trying to lose a couple strokes. Especially if I was a good driver of the ball in case we don't really know what

Rob 20:01

yeah.

Eric 20:01

like in this story, so we're trying to, we're trying to make up a little bit of

Rob 20:04

But I think the

Eric 20:05

But I think the answer

Rob 20:06

answering.

Eric 20:07

if everything was across the board and I had three months to do it, I would focus on short game. I would focus on

Rob 20:14

This is a, this is a very interesting question. It's kind of nuanced because we are giving ourselves a little bit of a time constraint. Right?

Eric 20:22

Correct, which, which we've also said is a demotivator and you

Rob 20:27

A hundred percent. Um, but let's go with it

Eric 20:31

gun to my head. I have to be a seven

Rob 20:33

must,

Eric 20:34

summer, or I lose a $50,000 bet with my

Rob 20:38

Um. This is where it gets very interesting. So if you take a 10 handicap, right? So let's say they're, they're averaging in the neighborhood of, let's say 14 to 17 over par, right? Is that fair?

Eric 20:54

I would

Rob 20:55

Yeah.

Eric 20:55

fair. Yeah. 14

Rob 20:57

Right. So their average score is gonna be anywhere from, you know, 86 ish to

Eric 21:03

Mm-hmm.

Rob 21:04

89. Mm-hmm.

Eric 21:05

Mm-hmm.

Rob 21:06

bucket of golfer is still gonna be in the range where shots to green is almost, and that just like that general shots to green number via reducing disruptors and penalties is still gonna be the biggest slice of the pie. You're approaching the territory where greens and reg become as much, if not more important because you're trying to. Make proportionately more pars at that point. But even though yes, it is a, is a bigger slice of the pie, if you talk about what am I going to do the quickest, what am I gonna do in a short period of time to get two to three strokes? I would argue putting like, because the, the gains that you can make in a short amount of time on the putting green are probably easier to make than. Incrementally improving like quarters of shots with your tee shots and your approach play and,

Eric 22:06

Correct. Yeah.

Rob 22:07

you know, getting maybe averaging one fewer disruptor slash penalty around over time. Right? So while for those golfers, if they come to see us for like more of like, Hey, you're gonna be my coach and, and we're gonna work together on getting you where you want to be, I would. Typically I would sprinkle in some putting, but I would heavily focus on improving ball striking. If you give me a three month time window, then I'm trying to get their putter into your point, proximity and short game, as, as good as I can get it in a short amount of time, which is gonna include a lot of strategy. Like, Hey, how are we reading the green? How are we reading our chips? Working on a lot of skill when it comes to,, distance predictability stuff., Certainly for a tan handicap like arc location with., Short game and is gonna be definitely a thing. But yeah, I would say like if I'm gonna focus on one, it's gonna be a solid percentage of putting solid percentage of short game. And then, working on arc location stuff and maybe some face to pass stuff, with tee shots and approach shots. Just try to reduce those disrupt person penalties.

Eric 23:14

Yeah, so that's why, that's what I was

Rob 23:15

Yeah, exactly.

Eric 23:16

with the three month, with the three month time constraint, I don't know if we fully answered

Rob 23:20

Right. So Yes. Yeah. Well, now we can, now we can take that context that we just talked about and then just kind of build the where and how portion of that, right.

Eric 23:33

Yeah. I would contend that with an improve in strategy, especially on t shot and approach play, just picking good. you know,

Rob 23:45

Good

Eric 23:45

know,

Rob 23:45

guitar. Uh, yeah, that'd be a big one too.

Eric 23:48

you, you're gonna gain probably,

Rob 23:51

I would guess if I went out.

Eric 23:51

guess if I went out, if you and I went out and caddied for a 10 handicap, the

Rob 23:55

Yeah,

Eric 23:55

10 handicap, that they would hit a few more

Rob 23:58

no question.

Eric 23:59

than they would if

Rob 24:00

Just because we're gonna pick the right,

Eric 24:01

we're gonna

Rob 24:01

and they're gonna reduce disruptors off the tee a little bit too. 'cause we're gonna give them lines off the tee like, wait, wait a minute. You want me to aim at that bunker? I'm like, yep. I want you to aim right at that bunker

Eric 24:09

Oh, and you're gonna hit a four iron there

Rob 24:12

maybe.

Eric 24:13

I saw your

Rob 24:13

Yeah.

Eric 24:14

last hole.

Rob 24:14

Especially

Eric 24:15

yeah. Especially if we had like

Rob 24:17

like,

Eric 24:17

a day of getting a

Rob 24:19

yeah.

Eric 24:19

data and then just really understanding their club distances, right. And being like, okay, we understand where

Rob 24:25

Yeah.

Eric 24:25

ball, so you're, we're gonna help you pick the right. strategy, I would predict we would limit a disruptor or two and probably hit a green

Rob 24:35

Mm-hmm.

Eric 24:36

more or two or three, and that

Rob 24:38

Yeah. And then

Eric 24:39

Right. And then, um, to your point, like short gave is the fastest,

Rob 24:43

quickest, right?

Eric 24:44

to improve.

Rob 24:45

Yeah. The least resistance to, yeah.

Eric 24:49

Right.

Rob 24:49

Your technique is very

Eric 24:50

technique is very country club level, which I

Rob 24:53

Yes. Yeah.

Eric 24:54

Meaning like a country club short game is fine, but it's not very diverse.

Rob 24:58

Uhhuh.

Eric 24:59

So learning how to change trajectories and spins and reading the, the rollout a little bit better and those things that like really help you become a better short game player, which takes some coaching

Rob 25:11

Yep. And then

Eric 25:12

And then as far as like playing on the

Rob 25:15

practicing

Eric 25:15

and practicing,

Rob 25:18

the rhythm of that is probably,

Eric 25:19

is probably up to the

Rob 25:21

um,

Eric 25:22

Um, you, your practice has to be there if you're, if you're gonna get better at the short game, like you've got, you've gotta work at it a little bit.

Rob 25:32

but

Eric 25:32

but man, I just love when people

Rob 25:34

mm-hmm.

Eric 25:35

so that's where the strategy's

Rob 25:37

Yep.

Eric 25:37

Right? And so I'm sure you have a more scientific

Rob 25:41

No, I,

Eric 25:42

gave, but that's sort of my, my

Rob 25:43

no, I totally agree. Like when, talking about the ratio of like, quote unquote practice to play. Yeah. Yeah. I would say that in general, like, change the stakes on the golf course as as much as you can. So if you're gonna. Make sure that every time you go on the golf course is not super high stakes, right? So if you can go on the golf course and turn it into a quote unquote practice session where it's like, all right, I'm going to become aware of the things that are relevant for me in my game and I'm gonna work on them then, and do it in almost a block prac, like quote unquote block practice on the golf course type of style. Where again, it's not always applicable because, You know, there's time constraints, constraints around, like who you're playing behind, you know, that kind of stuff. But if you can go out and have the, have the ability to play a shot and then assess, all right, was it swing scale strategy, and then drop another golf ball down, make the intended adjustment and do that. Throughout the course of a round and just start to not only develop skill, because then you're gonna have to be adjusting skill based off of the last shot, as well as the differences in environment, like different lies, slopes, winds, and whatnot. But you're also gonna be learning how well do you maintain the same freedom and the same rhythm when it comes to your golf swing in those different environments. And then also learning from a strategy standpoint what you're trying to do. So golf like. Is an amazing way, and practicing on the golf course is an amazing way to blend working on all three at the same time, if your, if your attention is on the, the what we believe is like the right thing, so starting with what did I swing it essentially the same, would the first question and then second question would be, right, was it my strategy is AKA my plan or the skill just didn't line up for me on that one. Right? And then. Starting to become aware of patterns, adjusting to patterns on the golf course. Like you do that in practice, like you're not gonna be on the golf course, in the course of play as able to make those adjustments if you haven't been already used to doing it on the golf course in lower stakes environments. So that's, that's kind of what I would say is practice is play. For the most part. It's just. What's the challenge point that you need right now or what, what you're, what you're desiring for. Because on the golf course, you're gonna have more time in between shots. You're gonna have more variability. You're gonna have, a higher level of consequence. So those are all gonna change the challenge point, right? It's just gonna be more difficult to access that same rhythm and freedom. It's gonna be the a little more difficult to access those skills. The strategy might feel a little fuzzier when it's on the golf course and when it matters, but. You don't get to where you want from going from the range where it's like no stakes, no variability, no spacing, all the way to maximum, right? One ball, keeping your score with a scorecard in your pocket with other people playing with you. There's a bridge there, that you want to be able to, to move through.

Eric 28:55

And I think it's, it's fair to say you can get better at golf just by playing more.

Rob 28:59

A hundred percent.

Eric 29:00

don't

Rob 29:00

percent. I would totally agree.

Eric 29:02

don't have to hit tons of balls and not granted.

Rob 29:06

Yeah.

Eric 29:06

to do that. Like I'm not saying you don't need to

Rob 29:09

Yes.

Eric 29:09

practice is, you

Rob 29:10

But you have a Scottish,

Eric 29:13

Scottish Highlands Cow. A picture hanging over your

Rob 29:17

so I was wondering when that would, I was wondering when that would show up.

Eric 29:20

the listener cannot see, but I can see. And his name you

Rob 29:23

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric 29:24

Tom

Rob 29:24

Yep.

Eric 29:25

that just reminds me I say this all the time to people. How did old Tom Morris get good at golf? It wasn't like he was out on the driving range pounding balls. I mean, still many golf courses in Europe. And England that don't have, they don't have driving ranges at all. Right? They don't have 'em to warm up. They don't have a practice facility. Right? So, so what do they do? They play on, they do exactly what you just described, right? They do some practice on the course. They play a lot. They move it around. They figure it out. They,

Rob 29:56

Yeah,

Eric 29:56

But it's not like you have to go, like, your only way to get better is to stand

Rob 30:01

correct.

Eric 30:02

and hit 407 irons in a row.

Rob 30:04

Totally. And it's like

Eric 30:06

right?

Rob 30:07

or not you get better through just playing golf. I think a lot depends on your framework, your psych, psychological framework and the feedback that you're being given. What's your mindset around what's going on? Right. Are you, are you viewing the outcomes as binary, good or bad? And then making everything personal, pervasive, prolonged, right, that we've talked about? Or are you looking at it as, information that is objective, right? Not just judging it. And then are you aware of them as single, isolated occurrences? Right. So you're temporary, they're external, right? They're non-personal. Right? And then if you're viewing them through that lens, you can be aware of those patterns. And then if your framework of what is happening, if you, if the awareness and the feedback is there and you're starting to, to be open to that error feedback and seeing the patterns, then you can make adjustments and, and that's where. The, the quality of your mindset, again, going back to all the way to Dr. Pryor stuff is so huge. The people that I see who bring a growth mindset to the golf course, when they practice and play, they do get better just by playing., The folks who bring more of a fixed mindset to practice and play when they play the golf course, they might get better, but the likelihood is it's gonna be, a bit more difficult for them.

Eric 31:32

Yeah, I've seen, through the, through the years. Some folks that are really hard on themselves. I think this is kind

Rob 31:38

Exactly

Eric 31:38

is, this is

Rob 31:39

like

Eric 31:39

saying. It's

Rob 31:40

you go out there, you're judging

Eric 31:41

and

Rob 31:42

yourself.

Eric 31:42

your self worth by, a lot of

Rob 31:44

You're living in into dying by each shot. Yeah.

Eric 31:47

they're, they're emotional in the moment, right? They're hitting a shot and they're telling their self something internally like, you're a terrible

Rob 31:53

Yeah. Only terrible golfers do that. Yeah. Yeah.

Eric 31:56

play with you because you're so bad right now. Or. You know, all these things that are just not helpful. So what all, all Robbie's trying to say is hit a shot and try to notice what happened to

Rob 32:05

Mm-hmm.

Eric 32:06

without emotionally reacting to it. And it's hard to do, but actually when you try to do it, you

Rob 32:12

Yeah.

Eric 32:13

it. Everybody can do it. And, and that helps, you know,

Rob 32:16

Mm-hmm.

Eric 32:17

mindset where it's like. If I have acceptance that golf is a hard sport and I'm gonna mess up sometimes, and I'm just trying to notice what happens when it goes well and when it doesn't go well, I'm gonna get way better than trying to judge

Rob 32:30

A hundred percent.

Eric 32:31

on my performance. You know, and then maybe there's some deep rooted

Rob 32:35

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric 32:35

But at the end of the day, like you're playing for fun in theory, you know, you just, you just do the

Rob 32:40

Yeah.

Eric 32:41

can and, that's all you can do. So. another question from a listener. This is from our, this is from a listener who we appreciate a lot because he listens pretty much the first day they come out. And then he always wants to give me some feedback about it or ask me questions, which I really like. So this one's from Lee, Melanie, and he says

Rob 33:02

How do you take skills?

Eric 33:03

you take the skills learned in differential training to the course? And I will say that Lee, is working on differential

Rob 33:10

Love it.

Eric 33:10

see him doing it. Right. And he talks about it, and he likes it. So differential training and taking it to the course.

Rob 33:19

what we talked about.

Eric 33:20

is where we talked about skill,

Rob 33:21

Yep. This is skill.

Eric 33:22

thing.

Rob 33:23

So,

Eric 33:26

Rob, what do you think about Lee's question

Rob 33:28

right. So understand what differential training is first off, and like the definition of it, it's um, reference point learning via intentional error feedback. Alright, so very similar to Goldilocks, right? You're giving yourself the boundaries of the skill. You're giving your brain that information about where the margins of error actually are. So then your brain has awareness, and awareness being the key of where the middle ground could be, right? So we call this like, you know, a lot of my players will say like. It's essentially a calibration process, so it's gonna teach your brain over a long period of time where the club is in space, because I don't know whoever said that. Perception's reality. It's not, usually it's not. Sometimes it is, sometimes it matches up, but usually it's a little bit off, right? So differential training in it's meant and designed. To be done on the range. Again, very low stakes. You can do it on the golf course. I'm not saying you can't do it on the golf course. You can absolutely do different training on the golf course, especially, um, like I said, if you're in that practice round environment, a hundred percent you can do it on the golf course, but it's designed to be a long term strategy for answering the question, why is there this perception and reality gap in terms of where I think the club is in space when it comes to literally where the club head is at impact, which is gonna. Create differences in this, the impact spot on the face, the face to path at impact, as well as the club at Speed Impact, right? So differential training is not designed to create swing thoughts. It's not designed to be added stuff that you're considering or thinking about when you go play. It is an exercise. It is like working out. It's like brushing your teeth. It's like something that just you do anytime really you can in a practice environment and then you forget about it. You literally forget you, you put it outta sight, outta mind. Especially when it comes to arc, location, and face to path for the most part. Depending on the shot, sometimes you got, you're in the trees, you gotta work it around something, some, sometimes you have to be a little bit more intentional with this stuff. When it comes to speed, if you were to put your attention when you play on one of those skills, probably speed would be my choice. Something speed related would be my choice. As far as like where you're placing your focus. If you're ever gonna focus on skill again, you don't have to. You literally can just forget skill altogether. When you go play, assuming that you're swinging freely and your strategy is good, you might then see a pattern, like when you go out and play, you might be a little bit heel bias, like first shot off the heel. Cool. Let's go find it and see what, ha. See what happens next. Swing it freely. Good strategy. Boom. Heel. Cool. That's two. All right. Not gonna do anything yet. That's only two. You never know. There may have been the only two the entire day you hit off the heel. Let's see what happens again then. Third one in the row. Okay, cool. All right, so now I could make an adjustment if I want. I don't have to boom. Fourth in, in a row. And he, okay. Alright. Now we're, we're gonna be aware of this pattern and then call upon a little bit of a feel. Of the opposite, essentially, Hey, I wonder what would happen if then I got the bottom of the swing a little closer to me. Right? Then what I think is correct, and that's the key there, is that you are open and willing to experience the opposite end of the spectrum because you are appreciating the fact that there's a perception in reality gap, right? And you're using that to your advantage, and then at some point you're gonna end up creating your intended skill. The more you do it and the more you try. But in the meantime, you're gonna hit probably a lot of very like centered dish shots, right? When you try to create the little and learning how to create the right amount of that adjustment again, 'cause it's a very subconscious, it's a feel. It's a sensory adjustment. It's not a swing thought. It's not, oh, let me do this with my left hip, or li let me do this with my right. No, it has nothing to do with a macro swing thing. It's a very, very subtle micro feel. It as the club is approaching the golf ball that is making the difference in your outcomes that you're experiencing on a golf course. All right? Assuming that the swing wasn't too different from a rhythm and freedom standpoint, it was pro it was a skill or it was a strategy thing, right? And so understanding that and saying, okay, well, I'm only going to call upon this field that I develop in differential training if I notice a pattern on the golf course. That's number one. And if the pattern is outside my dispersion number two, if you're hitting it just a little out the heel, but this ball is absolutely peppering inside your dispersion, great. Throw yourself a party. Love it. Go hit your tiny little heel cut all day long and, and take your friend's money, right? You do not have to be in the exact center of the face all day long if it's not roaming a ton. If it's pretty tight dispersion and it's functional in your dispersion, don't touch it. Accept it. Say, this is just where I'm at today. Play it and then have fun. But it's only, you're only making a little feel adjustment to skill if the following are are true. A, the rhythm and freedom is the same. B, there's a pattern, like a cluster, basically, you know, three to four-ish in close proximity. C right. Or did I say 1, 2, 3, A, B, C, whatever, doesn't matter. Lastly, if it's outside your dispersion, right, those are the, those are the conditions that need to be met before you make any sort of intentional little skill feel tweak to what's going on.

Eric 39:22

Yeah, so I think that's the, the answer is what you just said there, obviously, but it's like when you train those things. You're not gonna be surprised by

Rob 39:33

Right?

Eric 39:34

what I think. That's what I think is the benefit for a lot of golfers, like for me, for a lot of golfers, is when things show up,

Rob 39:40

Right.

Eric 39:41

I'm not gonna be surprised by it. I'm gonna be able to

Rob 39:44

Yes.

Eric 39:45

on. A lot of people, you, you've said this on the show I don't disagree with you. I was doing a little math, I think probably last year. probably watched over 150,000 shots

Rob 39:58

Yeah.

Eric 39:58

Man. Okay. And every shot, pretty much every shot.

Rob 40:04

I have

Eric 40:04

I have these

Rob 40:06

one is impact.

Eric 40:08

the impact location on the face, right, which TrackMan uses an algorithm to create a little dot on the face. It's not always perfect, but it's usually pretty darn close. And then you've got, you know, club speed, carry distance, total distance,

Rob 40:21

Face. Face,

Eric 40:21

path

Rob 40:22

Yeah.

Eric 40:22

attack angle, face to path, dynamic loft. I have up there sometimes. Low point distance, like those are my kind of general ones, and I'll pull other ones in when I need to, especially in club

Rob 40:32

So that those are the main

Eric 40:33

those are the main ball flight

Rob 40:35

Yeah,

Eric 40:35

Right.

Rob 40:36

and I,

Eric 40:37

And I watched, I'm gonna guess last year, 150,000 shots on TrackMan just last year. So in the 12 years that I've been teaching with TrackMan. Clearly over a million

Rob 40:47

yeah.

Eric 40:48

on there. Right? With a little dot popping up on most of them. Right? That algorithm wasn't always on there, so that's, but it is now. It's been there for years. So point being,

Rob 40:57

A lot of times people

Eric 40:58

a lot of times people

Rob 40:59

have say,

Eric 40:59

shot and they'll say, oh, I hit that on the toe, and they hit it way on the heel.

Rob 41:04

had one today. Yep.

Eric 41:05

I hit it fat and I'm like, hit it fat. Right. So the point is that's a person that needs to do some skill differential training to be able to understand and just

Rob 41:15

Yes. That's a great, yeah, a hundred percent.

Eric 41:18

or where the, where the arc is locating itself. Like up or down, in or out, Arc height and arc depth, so to speak. And I would say the open and close face thing is pretty reasonable 'cause people are reacting to the ball flight. if you had 'em close their eyes and hit, I'm not sure they'd always figure

Rob 41:38

agree.

Eric 41:38

either. So if you're someone that doesn't have those feels, you should be training those feels then you are able to react to them in a way that seems right and plausible, Where it's like, I know what's going on here. Where, and to your point, it's not intended to be this big conscious adjustment, that's not the point. Sometimes it's a little bit of a conscious adjustment. But most of the time when you train this, you just get better. I don't know. I don't know how

Rob 42:07

A hundred percent.

Eric 42:08

you just get better. And that's the point. That's just the point, right? You

Rob 42:12

Yeah.

Eric 42:12

better at making contact because your brain is figuring out it takes to make good contact. 'cause you're showing it the parameters of

Rob 42:21

Yep. And you always, you, you have this. Almost like armor, right, of like, there's no, there's nothing that can happen on a golf course that if it becomes a pattern you don't have the ability to adjust. Right?

Eric 42:36

Correct. Correct. that would be my answer, Lee. Melanie, I hope that was a good answer for you and, thank you for

Rob 42:44

Yep.

Eric 42:45

Really do

Rob 42:45

I found Officer Victor.

Eric 42:47

the, the Victor

Rob 42:47

Yeah,

Eric 42:48

interview. You wanna

Rob 42:48

sure. Yeah.

Eric 42:49

Let's play it. Lemme turn it up here. Hopefully we don't get like a, uh,

Rob 42:54

I realized on the last episode I was talking about tempo and I was snapping and it like completely, it didn't, it didn't get my snapping. I just sounded like I was just awkward pause. So, yeah, let's hope it, let's hope it pinks it up.

Eric 43:09

hope this comes through. You ready?

Rob 43:11

It's tough

Eric 43:11

And

Rob 43:12

to answer because

Eric 43:12

answer

Rob 43:13

you,

Eric 43:13

first of all, you

Rob 43:14

uh, that's why like TrackMan and the understanding the

Eric 43:17

understanding the

Rob 43:18

are are very good.

Eric 43:19

are very. to to

Rob 43:21

You can,

Eric 43:21

because you can start a ball left, more left than you would've like. But if it's curving back, who cares? That just means you're, you're

Rob 43:29

that just means.

Eric 43:30

it in the, in the center, your club path is just maybe creeping a bit more left. But if your face is in the right spot, you're just hitting a bigger curve, and then you can adjust that accordingly. Now, if you're starting the ball left and it's going left, you know, instead of face issues, are you striking it off the heel and they're not coming back, you know? So there's a lot of. Minutiae in involved with

Rob 43:51

but if it's just a

Eric 43:53

a face to path issue, there's, or a, a

Rob 43:56

direction,

Eric 43:57

then you can solve that it pretty easily by, you know, playing a bigger cut or playing a bigger draw, or moving it a bit more forward or back in the stands. You know, simple stuff like that. That makes sense. Makes perfect. Thank you.

Rob 44:09

cool. Yeah. So that's.

Eric 44:12

So that's, I mean, Victor's like, yeah. If you understand that, what makes the ball do the thing, then you can adjust make it do the other thing

Rob 44:21

Assuming that you practice changing it, and that would be my big thing. Like that's what, that's what differential training is. You literally are practiced changing what the ball is doing,

Eric 44:33

Correct. So what he was basically referencing, which I don't think we got, the first part of the question was basically like, how do you play with that? We was like saying, well, I could play with whatever.

Rob 44:41

A hundred percent.

Eric 44:42

hole, kinda like seeing what's happening. Like I can make adjustments that way if I understand what makes the ball do its thing. Right. So, it's hard for me to believe I taught half my career with before TrackMan to

Rob 44:53

Yeah.

Eric 44:54

to be quite honest, because it's such a, it's such a hard thing to understand what we were even telling people back then, or how I even learned golf. I have some guys that I teach that are probably around my age that grew up playing junior golf and competitive golf and we're trying to get better. And I always say, I always say this line, like when you and I were learning golf, this is what we were

Rob 45:12

Yeah.

Eric 45:12

to do and dot, dot, dot. A lot of times it was counterproductive or just it was

Rob 45:19

Yeah,

Eric 45:19

in a lot of ways, but that's what we were being taught because it was just a philosophy

Rob 45:23

yeah, yeah. Exactly. For sure.

Eric 45:26

to game improvement theory, which is what this first series was about, is like. It's not all about the swing, and again, we could have done a whole episode on the masters, like these teachers breaking down Rory's swing, like like, oh, Rory's definitely hooking it because he's winging his scapular, whatever. I'm like, oh my gosh. He's, he rotates the shaft too much at the bottom, which causes inconsistency in his ball

Rob 45:52

yeah.

Eric 45:52

like, bro.

Rob 45:53

Yep. Yeah,

Eric 45:56

we only could, if we could only discuss

Rob 45:58

and that's why we call the show the Golf Intervention. We call it an intervention for a reason. Because this, because golfers,

Eric 46:04

want people to

Rob 46:05

no, they, they, yeah. Like people just believe end up believing this stuff because it's, they heard it on tv and this person's reputable, so to speak. Right.

Eric 46:17

But if you really look at the ball flight laws, none, it all comes

Rob 46:21

Mm-hmm.

Eric 46:21

right?

Rob 46:22

For sure.

Eric 46:23

that with just, you just layer on top of it from there. And that's the language of, that's the language of golf, in my

Rob 46:28

So do we have any other,

Eric 46:29

do we have any other questions at this point? Do you have any other questions from your people

Rob 46:35

I got a good question actually. This was from. Friend of the show, Rudy Rudolph, one of my students asked about what should we be paying attention to when we watch golf on tv? If we just complete ripped on golf broadcasting, right? But sorry guys, not all of you are bad, like

Eric 46:56

on golf

Rob 46:56

golf. Uh, what, what did I say? A, did I say advertising? I meant to say comentary. Sorry.

Eric 47:02

Yeah, the most nauseating thing in the world is commentary

Rob 47:05

Yeah,

Eric 47:06

I get it. 'cause I ha that's even the worst. But when it's hurting the, when it's hurting the golfer because it's being

Rob 47:12

yeah.

Eric 47:14

Um, Rudy has a great question. I know what I like to watch, I like to watch the

Rob 47:18

Mm-hmm.

Eric 47:18

the caddies. 'cause that's the strategy piece that really I think is helpful. So when that, when you can actually hear the

Rob 47:24

Yes.

Eric 47:25

when they're making adjustments for. Lie, slope and weather,

Rob 47:29

Yep.

Eric 47:29

right. Mostly wind. when they're picking a target line at the center of their dispersion. Tho those things are awesome to hear,

Rob 47:37

Um,

Eric 47:38

Um,

Rob 47:39

watching their

Eric 47:41

their approach to the prew

Rob 47:45

mm-hmm.

Eric 47:45

in general after the conversation is.

Rob 47:48

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric 47:49

important where they put their

Rob 47:50

Answer this question.

Eric 47:51

answer this question, I'll, I'm gonna answer it fully and then I'll let

Rob 47:54

Yeah.

Eric 47:55

what you see too.

Rob 47:56

Where they put their attention,

Eric 47:57

they You can literally see them seeing the

Rob 48:00

Yeah. Their attention

Eric 48:01

Their attention is on their,

Rob 48:03

externally.

Eric 48:03

it's externally focused on their target and on their ball flight that they're trying to hit. how they. Create a rhythm in their swing that looks so

Rob 48:12

Yep.

Eric 48:13

Like when you watch Rory swing after swing, after swing after swing and that or Cam Young who, who has an

Rob 48:19

But it's very,

Eric 48:19

but it's

Rob 48:20

very consistent. You got it.

Eric 48:21

I mean, obviously. The consistency of the rhythm is really what's gonna drive the ability to, to have some repeatability in the strike and in the clubface delivery. 'Cause by the way, we're not controlling that clubface delivery very

Rob 48:34

Nope.

Eric 48:35

it, it's not about that. I mean, the more that you

Rob 48:37

Yep.

Eric 48:38

it, probably the worse it

Rob 48:39

A hundred percent.

Eric 48:40

So you have to be able to just deliver it in a way that feels

Rob 48:43

Yep,

Eric 48:44

And rhythm, I think plays a huge role in

Rob 48:46

a hundred percent.

Eric 48:48

So I would say, I would say. The interaction with the caddy. So the last slope and win predictions, club selection, the, the target line selection and then the pre-shot routine and the rhythm of their

Rob 49:01

Yep.

Eric 49:02

is really,

Rob 49:02

They don't show.

Eric 49:03

they don't show green reading anymore. it's, I mean if, you know, I don't watch a ton of golf.

Rob 49:08

mm-hmm.

Eric 49:09

honest, but I, I like to watch Sunday of the Masters, but they didn't show anybody

Rob 49:12

They never showed this.

Eric 49:14

showed Justin Rose reading a green. Did you notice

Rob 49:17

He does. Yep. They didn't show it.

Eric 49:18

Um. Never showed 'em once

Rob 49:21

They don't show.

Eric 49:22

they don't show Ludwig Berg

Rob 49:23

They'll show. You know?

Eric 49:25

you know, Rory and Scotty walking around

Rob 49:28

Yes.

Eric 49:29

looking at it

Rob 49:30

Yeah.

Eric 49:30

different angles. Cam Young's caddies looking at it from, you know, a bunch of angles and they're leaning down the ground. They're showing all that, but they will never show someone using name point,

Rob 49:39

It's so funny, isn't it?

Eric 49:41

Yeah, I think that's really interesting. But yeah, so that's what I, that's what I watch. And I think for the students, like

Rob 49:49

Obviously

Eric 49:49

obviously

Rob 49:51

you're trying to level

Eric 49:52

trying to level up to that level of control and ability and strategy. And if you're shooting 112, you don't have it, but at least you can start to, you can start to put together some thoughts

Rob 50:04

Yeah,

Eric 50:05

improve based on what you see from those guys. And, and, and the gals who are great too.

Rob 50:09

I completely agree with everything said in, in the commonalities and everything that you said there, Eric is. Pay attention to what they're doing, not what people believe that they're doing.

Eric 50:24

Yeah, exactly. You could not have said,

Rob 50:28

Say that again?

Eric 50:28

say that again, please. Say that again. We have to say

Rob 50:31

Yes. Pay attention to what they're doing, not what other people believe they're doing.

Eric 50:41

I love that.

Rob 50:42

Yeah. Yeah. And remember that

Eric 50:44

remember that it's, I

Rob 50:45

on top of that,

Eric 50:46

on top of that

Rob 50:47

remember?

Eric 50:47

and remember it's what they're

Rob 50:48

And that's like, yeah,

Eric 50:49

that's like,

Rob 50:50

it's influential.

Eric 50:51

influential

Rob 50:52

necessarily,

Eric 50:53

it's not necessarily

Rob 50:55

yeah, there's always

Eric 50:56

But there's always things to learn and I

Rob 50:57

great players.

Eric 50:58

to the great players they, they. You'll get clues from the greats, right? You just get, you get clues from the

Rob 51:04

People that talk about,

Eric 51:05

that talk about what they think they're doing. I, it just

Rob 51:09

yeah.

Eric 51:10

that helpful. Right. I know. I mean, I just think it's, it's

Rob 51:13

agree.

Eric 51:13

helpful. So that's, that's what we are trying to, trying to what the show, so to speak. Like just give the right stuff the data, gimme the data, don't gimme

Rob 51:25

Yep. Yep.

Eric 51:26

whatever that means. I don't even know what hogwash

Rob 51:29

I've heard it for a long time.

Eric 51:31

Yeah, I live in the south. People say hogwash

Rob 51:33

Is it what you wash your hog with? What not? Like if you've got a pig or something. Beautiful.

Eric 51:39

And who

Rob 51:39

I don't know. I know

Eric 51:41

Who would want it? I wouldn't want it. anyway, it's getting late

Rob 51:45

we were talking about hogwash.

Eric 51:47

off the rails. Taught 10 hours at 90 degree heat today, and I'm like hogwash. Anyway, Rob fails. Anything else you'd like to add to this fine episode today?

Rob 51:58

Uh, what's our next series gonna be?

Eric 52:03

To be

Rob 52:03

TTBD.

Eric 52:05

to

Rob 52:05

All right. If you got some, again, it's gonna be very likely driving approach, short game or putting, we, we might go off the rails with like a random episode here and there about whatever we wanna talk about. 'cause this is our podcast.

Eric 52:22

Whatever we want. Might have an interview,

Rob 52:25

yep. Never know.

Eric 52:27

Who knows?

Rob 52:28

But I, before we, before we, leave, I got a huge shout out to. UVA men's golf, they won their home tournament today. The Lu Tua Big win blew out the field. Paul Chang, co medalist, this was his second win in a row. So Paul, lovey, man, proud of you. You are

Eric 52:53

Come on, Paul Chang.

Rob 52:55

doing some, doing some amazing things. So,

Eric 52:58

What year? What year is

Rob 52:59

uh, this last year? Yep, yep, yep.

Eric 53:02

Well, at UVA, we call that a fourth year. I don't want to, a son there. I've gotta use the proper nomenclature, right? You

Rob 53:08

Yep, yep,

Eric 53:10

year. Come

Rob 53:11

yep.

Eric 53:12

Good for

Rob 53:12

Number one team come, right? Yep.

Eric 53:14

Right? Do they still rank number one? I mean, wow.

Rob 53:18

Got,

Eric 53:19

He's got some

Rob 53:19

oh yeah.

Eric 53:21

that

Rob 53:21

That team is ridiculous.

Eric 53:24

I mean, I'm not gonna go in a UVA athletics tirade 'cause I do

Rob 53:27

Yeah.

Eric 53:28

there. UVA has some

Rob 53:30

They're crushing it.

Eric 53:33

I mean, the swimming teams are

Rob 53:34

Yep. Mm-hmm. Always.

Eric 53:37

They always get in

Rob 53:38

Always.

Eric 53:39

and. And now golf's number one in the country. They won A-N-C-A-A championship in basketball not long ago. Like man, they these kids at UVA,

Rob 53:50

Yep.

Eric 53:51

are intense. They are such, that's a focus

Rob 53:54

Yep.

Eric 53:55

man. Super cool. Well, I know the team appreciates your help with their players who ask for it. And

Rob 54:03

I don't do much. Yeah, yeah. Yep.

Eric 54:05

let's go, let's go. All

Rob 54:08

All right.

Eric 54:09

Thank

Rob 54:09

Yeah. Thank you.

Eric 54:12

lively discussion on golf

Rob 54:14

I love our lesson. We didn't even do, we didn't even talk about, well, we did. We talked about lessons from lessons indirectly. Indirectly,

Eric 54:21

we had some, we had some insights. I mean, there was some stuff I could have brought up that I had in the back

Rob 54:24

yeah. Um,

Eric 54:25

but, um,

Rob 54:27

good. That was a mailbag. Yeah, a hundred percent.

Eric 54:29

Our last episode, which was really fun. One of our most downloaded episodes we've ever

Rob 54:34

and

Eric 54:35

and.

Rob 54:35

about

Eric 54:36

We talked a lot about like what to pay attention to, probably what not to pay attention to. And we didn't talk much about sort of our own preferences as instructors, which golf instructors are gonna have some preferences. That's just part of the deal. Right? And, um,

Rob 54:51

far,

Eric 54:52

as far as

Rob 54:53

so I we're gonna put that

Eric 54:54

I think we're gonna put that out as a bonus episode as soon as we can get it out on the substack. So you may wanna check that out where we, Rob and I are actually gonna talk about. How we teach people to swing it or what we

Rob 55:05

Yeah. Well we prefer to see. Yeah.

Eric 55:06

our own, given our own,

Rob 55:08

Yep.

Eric 55:09

So, that'll be really fun. We haven't really done that. We've tried to

Rob 55:12

Yeah.

Eric 55:13

that on the

Rob 55:14

Yeah.

Eric 55:14

reason

Rob 55:15

And we'll continue to stay away from that on the main show.

Eric 55:20

That's

Rob 55:21

that's it for today.

Eric 55:21

that's it for today. We appreciate you tuning in. We really do this for the, for the love of the game, for the fun of it all, and every time. That the masters rolls around and I sit on my couch with my kid. Even my wife and kids

Rob 55:35

Yeah. It's so cool.

Eric 55:36

I watch it. You know, they don't, they don't wanna watch anything else with golf, but that one's super cool. And so we all sit together and make a big day

Rob 55:43

Yep.

Eric 55:44

um,

Rob 55:45

It's just so special.

Eric 55:46

so

Rob 55:47

It is.

Eric 55:47

man. It's so

Rob 55:48

It

Eric 55:49

and it just gets you, like in, in Virginia, it just coincides with the beginning of the golf

Rob 55:54

just gets you so fired up.

Eric 55:55

greening up and the, the flowers are blooming and it's, uh.

Rob 56:00

That's a great time.

Eric 56:01

just

Rob 56:01

So

Eric 56:01

time of

Rob 56:01

we're hoping that we can help you along this journey.

Eric 56:03

help you

Rob 56:04

Yeah.

Eric 56:05

on your golf game as we go into the season 2026. And like I said, if you ever have any questions, please let us know on our email is the golf intervention@gmail.com or find us on substack or Instagram. And we appreciate you more than you know. Thanks for tuning in and we hope you have a great week of golf.